Good intentions, bad laws, bad results.

[Bookmeister]

See, you pass a bad law, and you inevitably invoke one of the Lord's Natural Laws....The Law of Unintended Consequences.

[Fiannan]

Originally Posted by puf_the_majic_dragon

Genetic quality is far different from health quality. While a person in a third world nation might have a much lower quality of health, their genetic code is of the same quality as anyone from a rich nation. At least according to modernism. While finding a donor in an alley might increase the risk of disease, the risk of any genetic complication is exactly the same as any other donor.

I do not think this is an issue facing third world nations that much.

Also, I disagree with your assessment of choosing a donor. The homeless guy in the alley likely (not always but likely) is suffering from alcoholism, drug addiction or a severe mental illness like schizophrenia. These traits may or may not be transmitable through offspring but why take the risk? Why not screen people out who have traits that are negative and could be passed on genetically? Even Brigham Young thought drunks should refrain from reporducing.

I doubt that people in the medical community would agree with "modernism" -- biology and genetics would say give people a choice and they will choose the best. That's what is so un-democratic about the system in Sweden -- you are not allowed to pick the donor based on their characteristics like you can in the USA.

Also, my point is that laws should not be there that don't let the market decide. I think this is what RachelleDrew is getting at. In the USA if you are married, single, gay, straight whatever you can go to a sperm bank and create a family. I do believe they have counselors who check on if you would be a good parent though -- doubtful a crack addict could get serviced. Some clinics allow donors to let children access who they are or not do this, some clinics specialize in certain types of sperm (like the one that only has Scandinavian donors) and some only take the super healthy and intelligent as donors. People at all levels are given choice.

Now in some countries in Europe, the process is highly regulated and that causes problems and also limits choices. Many people choose "fertility tourism" and go to countries with little regulation to escape the long wait for insemination as well as to be able to select what kind of donor they want. One Wsedish politician (I think it was a government person) recently said reproduction was not a right but that equality should prevail (regarding if single women could get insemination). That's what you get when the government is in charge -- policy makers making decisions for you, even about what rights you have regarding reproductive matters. Yeah, in Sweden you can abort a pregnancy but you have only limited choice in choosing the kind fo baby you want (if you are a couple) and no real choice if you are single -- yet. I don't believe that is really reproductive freedom.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Fiannan I was merely trying to stress the difference between genetics and disease. The likelihood of getting a heritable disorder is as good from any donor as from the next (and if you screen out one, there's 10 more we can't screen for yet) and are independent of geographic or economic bounds; whereas diseases such as STDs can be "donated" only where economic or political situations prevent proper medical screening of donors. The topic seemed to be pointed towards the latter, while using terminology for the former.

As far as screening genes for reproduction, I'm personally of the opinion that "not all genes are created equal". I totally support (positive) eugenics and firmly believe that the human population is getting dumber with each successive generation - because only stupid people are breeding.

But I digress. The point of this thread isn't about controlled breeding, it's about people having rights and options regarding reproduction. I'm going to agree with your Swedish politician and say that reproduction is NOT a right. It's a gift. THE most precious gift God has given us in this life. The power to procreate - the power to create life! We're not talking about just a few biological processes here, we're talking about the power of creation in its deepest most profound sense - the same power by which worlds are created. It's a gift, a responsibility, and it's being horribly abused.

[LegendadryPerc]

But what wisdom does man have (govt.) to regulate the gifts of God?
Also, I don't know much about hereditary diseases, but (being indoctrinated with good old USA doctor worship like the rest of us), it was my understanding that most if not all deadly types of genetics, were capable of being identified. Other things, like downs syndrome, autism, cleft lip, these I see more as differences, than negative problems. Though I am all for the right of parents to choose.
Third world countries have poor transportation. I think this is one of the main things that defines them. Otherwise, someone would easily go in there and industrialize the place ! Poor transportation usually equals less travel, which usually equals a smaller gene pool, which, I understand, usually equals a higher chance of problems with the genes. Also, some of the safety precautions that industrialized countries try to implement, are non-existant in many 3rd world countries, potentially exposing future donations to altering things such as radiation.
Good point on not making asumptions, though.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Well I could play the devil's advocate and say that it is not only man's right but his duty to let governments regulate the gifts of God, but honestly I think that it is many's right and duty to regulate the gifts of God himself. That's part of the plan of salvation - to learn personal responsibility.

I'll concede the point of a smaller gene pool in some undeveloped countries, however in most cases the gene pool isn't small enough to make that much of a difference. I'll also concede the industrial side effects, even though those often result in infertility. However even in our "modern" USA, many of these industrial waste products are not being filtered as they should be, and resulting in a "marred" gene pool here. I'll use a local example of Cotter Corporation, a uranium processing company with a very long history of poor containment.

Cotter Uranium Mill