Did the American Government really lie?

[JohnBirchSociety]

Originally Posted by MorningStar

Why do people conveniently forget that Clinton said there were weapons of mass destruction too? He did order Iraq to be bombed for a few days when my husband was in the Air Force and every year right around Thanksgiving, he was on stand by to go to the Middle East because Saddam was being a pain about letting in the inspectors. I remember too having to write a paper based on Clinton's comments about there being weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I think that was the year I graduated - 1993. I don't think anyone lied about there being weapons of mass destruction - they were mistaken. There's a difference there. And it was believable because of the horrible things Saddam did.

WMD's or not. Lies or not, the facts / question before us as LDS members who believe in a divinely inspired Constitution and the form of government it was designed to foster (Constitutional Republic) is this:

Are we fighting a war that is declared (the only means available to enter into war) by Congress as mandated by the Constitution?

Answer:

NO

Therefore, according to the mandate of GOD in the D&C "it cometh of evil"...

There is no "loophole" to this. WE MUST FOLLOW the Constitution or we are doomed in our efforts (however noble they may be).

We will not win the "War on Terror" because there is no "war" as declared by Congress.

[MarginOfError]

Just for the sake of devil's advocacy:

Hasn't Congress authorized every request for more money to fund the war? Isn't there an implicit statement of support for/declaration of war in that action?

Reframed another way, if the majority of Congress agreed that Bush had violated the Constitution, I guarantee we'd be looking at impeachment hearings. The fact that we haven't implies that more people in Congress support the war in principle (or at least did), but did not do so vocally because of political expediency. But they can't take the Constitutional issue too seriously becauce Kucinich just put out a bill for impeachment and he's being laughed off the floor. Perhaps they didn't want to support the war openly so that they could pin the blame on someone else if it failed. Now there's a good way to enter a war.

Now, before the beatings begin, let me get out my suit of armor.

[sixpacktr]

Originally Posted by MyDogSkip

Satan is non partisan...He used the GOP to persecution and drive us from America...He used the GOP to place whore mongers in control of the Utah Territory...He used the GOP to strip us of our rights.

The GOP wasn't founded until the early 1850s, so they didn't drive us from the US: that was the Democrats and the Whigs. And when the US gov't came in 1857 to take control of the 'Mormon problem' the GOP still wasn't in control. They gained control under Lincoln in 1860.

So, not 100% true. But you are right about Satan being non-partisan. Both the Dems and the Repubs later on have pursued votes at the expense of the Mormons. Even as late at 2008.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by sixpacktr

The GOP wasn't founded until the early 1850s, so they didn't drive us from the US: that was the Democrats and the Whigs.

So the Republicans are latter-day Whigs. They still don't cotton to Mormons.

[User-Removed]

Originally Posted by Moksha

So the Republicans are latter-day Whigs. They still don't cotton to Mormons.

Richard Wright and Greg Prince in their seminal work on David O. McKay write of an experience that happened early in McKay's life.

When the Federales forced Utah to abondon their unique 2 party system and go with either GOP or Democrat, there were meetings held throughout Utah of the Priesthood. In these meetings, the chapel was usually divided down the middle with one half becoming Democrat and the other half becoming Republican.

President McKay's Father returned from one of those meetings sick...and he explained to his family that he sat on the side that became GOP, and he was ashamed of it and wondered aloud how he was ever going to be able to show his face in public again...as a Republican...

From that....................to UGLY baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabies

[Islander]

Friends, history is not destiny. There were good and bad people in both parties throughout history. Not one party had a monopoly on fairness and justice. Politicians (most) are a self-serving breed interested in survival at the polls. So, whatever works to their advantage and contributes to their political capital account that they will use and do.

It is quite difficult to stake a position, make your philosophical base known and be a successful politician. You will be a 1 term "politico" which is not worthy given how much money it takes to get elected. Revisionism is a fun sport but it does not have great intellectual value looking forward, IMO. The parties of the 1800's are no longer in existence. Mitt, contrary to his better judgment and in clear incongruence with the teachings of the church, supported the first same sex marriage initiative in the nation!!! So, it goes to show that what drives the political class is not necessarily principles all the time.

[User-Removed]

Originally Posted by sixpacktr

The GOP wasn't founded until the early 1850s, so they didn't drive us from the US: that was the Democrats and the Whigs. And when the US gov't came in 1857 to take control of the 'Mormon problem' the GOP still wasn't in control. They gained control under Lincoln in 1860.

So, not 100% true. But you are right about Satan being non-partisan. Both the Dems and the Repubs later on have pursued votes at the expense of the Mormons. Even as late at 2008.

sixpactr...my recollection of Utah and US history is entirely correct. While I did not list a time line or offense after offense...The Utah Territory was punished far harsher at the hands of the GOP, than it was by either the Whigs or Democrats.


Actually...I see where I posted something...and it was late, where I jumble together the GOP and driving us from America. Clearly, that is incorrect. BUT...You cannot argue that it was the GOP who vociferously persecuted the Utah Territory leading up to Statehood?

[sixpacktr]

No, I won't argue that. As I said, both parties used the Mormons as a crux for garnering favor/votes in the rest of the country. Just as they do today.