Gas - The Problem no one thinks about

[pam]

Originally Posted by Steven22

I think the alternative fuel, Ethanol, is a joke. Why would you take food and make fuel? Taking food away from us to make fuel that is not as good as oil. You get a lot worse gas mileage out of Ethanol than oil. Ethanol should stop being used and give us the food back. There is a much better way to use that food. People in other countries are starving and what are we doing with it? Using it to fuel our cars! Ridiculous!

You lose only about 2 miles per gallon. At least with the E-85 that I'm pretty familiar with. That's not really considered a lot less fuel mileage. Especially when it burns cleaner and is better for the environment.

"Ethanol production and use benefit U.S. agriculture and lead rural economic development. Because it is made primarily from corn and other agricultural products, ethanol increases demand for these crops, increases the prices farmers receive for these crops, and brings economic development opportunity to the rural areas where the ethanol is made."

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by pam

You lose only about 2 miles per gallon. At least with the E-85 that I'm pretty familiar with. That's not really considered a lot less fuel mileage. Especially when it burns cleaner and is better for the environment.

"Ethanol production and use benefit U.S. agriculture and lead rural economic development. Because it is made primarily from corn and other agricultural products, ethanol increases demand for these crops, increases the prices farmers receive for these crops, and brings economic development opportunity to the rural areas where the ethanol is made."

Okay, I'm confused.

I thought he was joking. Please tell me he was joking!

Do I need to remove my LOL so it doesn't look like I'm being derisive?

Please tell me he was joking.

Elphaba

[a-train]

I find it funny how the masses are all in the know about how auto execs flew in private jets to Washington to ask for a bail-out. The auto guys are a scapegoat. They are nothing but show to give the world the impression that Washington stood up to the big bad capitalists. Meanwhile, the real enemy, the international bankers, are commencing the largest consolidation of economic power in world history and nobody seems to care.

Who told the media to point out the auto guys?

We should be letting everything go bankrupt and not give them one cent, MOST importantly financial institutions which sell products that they simply conjure into existence (isn't that illegal?).

On the issue of gasoline, I don't think we have a nice two years of low gas prices to look forward to. The economic summit (which is nothing but a hollywood show designed to make us think the legitimate world governments are calling the shots on international finance) will provide no solutions. The REAL financiers are simply consolidating wealth and economic power. As soon as this is accomplished to their approval: bye-bye dollar, hello $5 a gallon.

The word for today is: STAGFLATION.

"The inflationism of the currency systems of Europe has proceeded to extraordinary lengths. The various belligerent Governments, unable, or too timid or too short-sighted to secure from loans or taxes the resources they required, have printed notes for the balance." - John Maynard Keynes (socialist economist) The Economic Consequences of the Peace 1919

-a-train

[WANDERER]

Probably a good idea to use a range of energy sources as all energy production has an offset e.g. solar energy offset by the materials used to produce photovoltaic cells or ethanol from corn offset by loss of food crops.

Upandcoming contender in the alternate energy stakes: artificial photosynthesis.

[countrygirl66]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

Ok I am frustrated. I have been watching the auto makers in Japan or japanese run auto companies in the US. They have a plan. They are not in huge amounts of debt. Are they losing money right now? yes (but a small amount in comparison to us automakers) Are they still moving forward? yes Why? Because their losses are in line with a bad economy, they will be able to ride it out. They have the philosophy that the workers building the cars etc. are the most important part of the company. The executives make a reasonable salary. If the workers take a pay cut so do the executives. One executive was asked how he was making it with the pay cut he had taken? He said I am doing what my employees are doing, cutting back using money I have in savings, why should they suffer and not me. One I heard about yesterday was a guy in the us working for a japanese run auto maker. He said he felt like "Charlie in the chocolate factory" and he had a golden ticket. They had to shut down his plant for a few weeks. (what did the company do?) Had him and the other workers do community service for those weeks at full pay from the company. Is he worried about getting laid off? no Why? Because the executives feel like the sucess of the company is a matter of honor. The people depending on them is a matter of honor. (not filling their own pockets with cash.) I think a lot of executives not just car makers could care less about the companies they run or the people depending on them. I say let them go broke. Will it hurt? YES But maybe someone will buy the factories that actually knows how to run them and cares about the people working for them. (I see nothing where these guys crying for a handout at our expense have done anything to move forward they just keep doing the same old thing and hope it works) WHEW! That was quite a rant. I feel better now. thanks

[pam]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

Okay, I'm confused.

I thought he was joking. Please tell me he was joking!

Do I need to remove my LOL so it doesn't look like I'm being derisive?

Please tell me he was joking.

Elphaba

I took it as being serious. Maybe he was joking but didn't appear that way to me.

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by countrygirl66

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

The Japanese run their businesses using an efficiency tool called Total Quality Management. Everything is constantly being analyzed for greater efficiency. Everyone from the top to the bottom is responsible for the quality of their product. And yes, the salaries are reasonable from the top down.

Additionally, everything else you mentioned is true. Quality is what drives the business.

However, I heard the Japanese car maker's were not doing as well as they did in the '90s.

Do you know anything about that?

Elphaba

[hordak]

Didn't the unions have something to do with this?
I grew up in MI and recall my parrents working 3 jobs between the 2 of them to make ends meet.The highest paying one was minimum wage at $4.15 an hour. Mean while every few years the unions at GM would go on strike to complain about $16.00 an hour not being enough.
The main reason they can't compete with the Japanese is the cost.IMO.
How can a company like Toyota build and sell cars in America for cheaper then GM?

[countrygirl66]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

However, I heard the Japanese car maker's were not doing as well as they did in the '90s.

Do you know anything about that?

Elphaba

I know that they have had losses like most and they were hit by the big big truck and suv phase people went through. However their losses and lower prophits are nothing compared to the us auto makers. They seem to look down the road not just right this minute.

[countrygirl66]

Originally Posted by hordak

Didn't the unions have something to do with this?
I grew up in MI and recall my parrents working 3 jobs between the 2 of them to make ends meet.The highest paying one was minimum wage at $4.15 an hour. Mean while every few years the unions at GM would go on strike to complain about $16.00 an hour not being enough.
The main reason they can't compete with the Japanese is the cost.IMO.
How can a company like Toyota build and sell cars in America for cheaper then GM?

These are not exact figures just a comparison. Where a toyota executive may make 1 or 2 million a year a GM exec would make 12 - 15 million. It is mind boggling. I would look for the exact number but I just had a bad net experience looking for info. Maybe i will try later.