Hamas a fanatical hate group.

[ruthiechan]

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

This must the fourth thread that is currently serving the same topic.

And? It's being talked about from a different angle. How is that a bad thing?

[Loudmouth_Mormon]

Originally Posted by FunkyTown

We must move forward, not backwards! Upwards, not forwards and twirling... Always twirling for FREEDOM! - Kodos

Don't blame me, I voted for Kang.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by ruthiechan

And? It's being talked about from a different angle. How is that a bad thing?

Unless you are looking for post count, same remarks.

[Loudmouth_Mormon]

Originally Posted by a-train

Yeah, Israel should just nuke Gaza and get it all over with.

Actually, I want to revisit a-train's remark. I would like to know if anyone is seriously even suggesting this. Can anyone point me to any person or group calling on Israel to destroy the folks in Gaza?

Again, Hamas is the clear, unchallenged bad guy here. Here's what's playing on Hamas TV as of last Wednesday - Egyptian Cleric Safwat Higazi: Dispatch Those Sons of Apes and Pigs to the Hellfire, on the Wings of Qassam rockets

Being killed is nothing new to us. Martyrdom is nothing new to us. You threaten to kill us?! By Allah, you are threatening us with what we desire more than anything. You are threatening us with what our souls yearn for.
[...]
By Allah, I wish I could carry my gear, carry my gun, and be among you. I wish I could stand among the youth of the Al-Qassam Brigades, passing them one of their missiles, wiping from their faces the dust of a missile that was launched, or crying “Allah Akbar” along with them. By Allah, I wish I could do that.
[...]
You [in Hamas] are the ones upon whom Jesus, son of Mary, will descend, preaching the religion of the Prophet Muhammad in your land. You are paving the way for the war foretold by the Prophet Muhammad: “Judgment Day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews. The Jews will hide behind stones and trees, but the stones and trees will say: Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.” You are the ones preparing the ground for this, preparing the ground for the return of the Caliphate in the path of the prophets.
[...]
Allah is with us, and there is nobody with them. Allah is our God, and there is nobody with them. We say to them: We are not equal. Our dead go to Paradise, while your dead go to the Hellfire. We say to them: The Qassam rockets will serve as Ababil birds.1 Indeed, they are Ababil birds. We say to them that while our martyrs celebrate in Paradise, your dead find themselves in the Hellfire. We say to you: Dispatch those sons of apes and pigs to the Hellfire, on the wings of the Qassam rockets.
[...]
Jihad is our path – Jihad for the sake of Allah, in all its forms. This is our strategic option, and not peace. Even “if they incline toward peace...” Yes, in that case, we will incline toward peace. If peace is made with us – yes, we will make peace as well, out of strength and honor. However, Jihad and resistance will remain our strategic option. Why? Because the Prophet Muhammad told us this. It makes no difference what kind of peace it is – they will never reconcile with us. They will ostensibly reconcile with us, but will they make real peace? Never.
[...]
The [Jews], who are as smooth as a viper, and who lick their lips as a speckled snake, will never live with us in peace and harmony. They deserve to be killed. They deserve to die. They are the ones at whom the Qassam rockets should be fired. You should not care if you hit a man, a woman, or a child. Just like they killed your children – kill their children. Just like they killed your women – kill their women. Just like they destroyed your mosques – destroy their places of worship. Destroy... everything over there.

1 Ababil birds are described in the Koran as dropping red clay bricks on the army of elephants sent by the king of Yemen to attack Mecca in 571 CE.

[a-train]

Originally Posted by Loudmouth_Mormon

Dang, A-train - are you feeling ok? I've noticed a slew of these comments in your posts in the last few weeks. I seem to remember a time when you could engage in conversation without the use of glaringly obvious bizzarro strawmen. Now it's standard fare with you.

I am just trying to communicate to you in your own tongue. The meat of your statement was that this conflict endures because Israel was not effective enough in killing the enemy ten years ago. Further you are saying that the reason for their ineffectiveness is the hiding of these men behind civilian targets which Israel does not want to harm. With all that in mind, how many lives will be lost in the decades to come? Perhaps Israel should simply wipe the problem off the map and be done with it.

Originally Posted by Loudmouth_Mormon

One guy with a missile on his shoulder in an urban area has a ton of advantages against a far superior force. I'm guessing it seems improbable to you because you don't have a good grasp on how such things work. Just a suggestion, but if you could stomach a few Tom Clancy novels, it might open your eyes a bit to the realities of warfare. (Yes, he writes fiction. He also takes great pains to fill his fictional stories with the realities of organizations, capabilities, and equipment.)

See, there for example "open your eyes" is a phrase that means you are just so much more informed than I. So tell me, what is this great advantage this man has? I have never even heard of the police knocking out a whole block to bring out a sniper (and we've had many snipers in America's past).

Clearly there is something more to the strategy than simply killing the bad guy. Israel is using bulldozers to take down houses days after the shooting. Are they expecting to find the shooter still hiding in the rubble?

They may indeed be completely justified and their efforts may indeed be saving lives in the long run, even though civilians are dying. This is really besides the point for me. What I want to get across to people is the necessity for the United States to remain out of the situation.

-a-train

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by Fiannan

RonRosenbaum.com Some Differences Between Hamas and the Nazi Party

It is ironic that much of the socialistic media in Europe presents Hamas as a group merely fighting for liberation and against some sort of extremism of Israel yet rarely looks into what the organization stands for -- or the fact that Hamas purposly locates its weapons in civilian areas so that when Hamas murders innocent Israeli citizens ,and then is forced to target those missiles, innocent Palestinians will be killed.

A big difference between Hamas and Israel is that Hamas purposely targets men, weoman and children who are Jewish while Israel does its best to avoid killing civilians.

From various posts I am not sure that we understand war. There is no such thing as a nice war nor is there a “good” ending to war. To bring an early end to WWII the “good” guys (us) selected two German civilian cities to fire bomb. This was to let the Germans know that we meant business. Dresden was one of those cities. The Germans were not hiding behind civilian targets. Over a hundred thousand civilians died in the relentless attack. Fires were so hot from the bombing that brick buildings melted. Dresden is still rebuilding.

The most deadly weapon of war in the history of mankind was used against civilian targets in Japan to force a quick surrender. I can only think of one thing worse than engaging in war and that is losing a war. The only reason to engage in war is when not engaging in war is worse. The sad truth of war is that it engages civilians.

Throughout the history of mankind there has been an endless supply of leaders willing to endanger their wives and children of themselves and their countrymen for selfish reasons. Many more endanger civilians for what is believed to be a “better life”. I know of one civilization that ended all war and for generations lived in peace. For generations they lived without weapons of war or even vocabulary to reference war. They prospered until they were discovered by Traditional Christians that endeavored to convert them to Christ. When not one among them converted the Traditional Christians that had prospered in hundreds of years of war easily overcame them in a genocide that forever ended every trace of their peace loving DNA.

Why do I bring up these points – we all have a bias. We seem to hold some to a different standard than others. Someday we will meet G-d who lives by a much higher standard and it is my understanding that unless we forgo our standards for the greatest good, we will not live with him.

The Traveler

[jimuk]

And today Israel who do not Target civilians intentionally have rocket attacked three schools, these three schools which clearly had "UN" on the Buildings, But its ok they say the Israel army were fired upon from these positions.

And for those who feel that Gaza should be Nuked, i say shame on you guys.

[Loudmouth_Mormon]

Originally Posted by jimuk

And for those who feel that Gaza should be Nuked, i say shame on you guys.

Nobody is saying that jimuk. A-train is the one who mentioned it, trying to assign the notion as some sort of logical extention of my thought process. I don't quite understand how he gets there from what I've said - I wholeheartedly reject the notion.

I've posted exerpts of stuff recently seen on Hamas TV, where an Egyptian cleric is urging the Palestinians to destroy everything and everyone in Israel. I've called for anyone to produce a similar statement from anyone wishing Israel would just destroy everyone in Palestine, but nobody seems to be able to come up with one.

LM

[hethathathears]

To many, the war that is ragging in Gaza is a massive injustice of the Jews wanting more power and land. Somehow they can keep a blind eye to the hundreds of rockets that have been shot over into Israel. It is funny how the media has remained silent as all the rockets rained down upon Israel.

The real evil, (although much of the world doesn't see it), is Hamas, and their war is coming straight out of the terrorist play book. Whether, Hamas, or Hezbollah, or Al-Qaeda, or the PLO, there game plan has always been the same. That is smack the hornets nest and then cry that they are the victim.

Last year I read a fantastic book that was called, "Because they Hate," written by Brigitte Gabriel. The book is all about how her beloved Lebanon (The pearl of the middle east for many years) was brought down by Hate-mongering Muslims. In the 1970's Lebanon was 55% Christian Lebanon and 45% Muslims. That balance was enough to maintain a peaceful balance of prosperity for the Nation. When Jordan evicted the PLO out of their country, Lebanon was gracious enough to open their doors to the displaced PLO outcasts. Suddenly, there were more Muslim Lebanese that there were Christian Lebanese, and so the murder and the rape and the robbery began. Christian's were systematically killed. The Muslims were told that it was their right to kill and rape the infidel Christians. Through out that war, it was common for the Muslim army to go into a Christian town or farm and set up artillery and then fire on other Christian towns. Then they would flee the seen while the Lebanese army would rain down fire and missiles on the town or farm where the artillery came from.

But see the world never gets to hear about that kind of stuff. The real victims in this war are the Palestine's. A great many of them are innocent, while Hamas enters their homes and building and fires their rockets. Just like in the Lebanese war. And of course any dead children or women that are killed in process are paraded on world T.V. to show the world what complete barbarians the Israelis are.

But when everything is said and done, we are one step closer to Gog and Magog.

[a-train]

Originally Posted by Loudmouth_Mormon

Nobody is saying that jimuk. A-train is the one who mentioned it, trying to assign the notion as some sort of logical extention of my thought process. I don't quite understand how he gets there from what I've said - I wholeheartedly reject the notion.

What line or barrier stands between the notion blowing up a whole city block of civilian residences and nuking the whole region? If not a block, why not two? Why not ten? Why not a hundred? Where do we draw the line?

-a-train