Stop Blaming the Homeowners

[Just_A_Guy]

Youch.

(Referring to both the statistic and the none-too-compassionate analysis thereof.)

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

Bytor,

Do you not recognize you do the exact same thing?

Few people are as full of ideaology as you are. I readily admit I am one of them. But the fact that you' would rant at someone else, when you do the very same thing, is really bad form.

Elphaba

I do not think it bad form, but rather one of those mysterious quirks in the universe. Sort of like a zebra with a tic-tack-toe pattern.

[drjme]

Very intereseting documentary I watched recently

the ascent of money: safe as houses

part five goes through goes through prime, sub prime, federal credit, credit 'by colour' and a lot of interesting info relating to home ownership and govt incentives effects on economy.

[boyando]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

I keep reading, all over the net as well as here on lds.net, tirades against homeowners, blaming them for the financial crisis, and frankly, it is just plain mean.

Many Americans bought their homes because they believed in the age old value of homeownership and thought it would make a sound investment.

They believed it was the best thing for their family, for their children. They wanted them to live in safer neighborhoods, proven schools, and yes, even a better lifestyle. Lord forbid!

Now the American Dream of homeownership has turned into an American nightmare with over two million people being forced into foreclosure. Ten million are having trouble making their payments. Perhaps another six million homes will face foreclosure by 2012.

That is 18 MILLION homeowners, of which the vast majority are mom and dad and two-and-a-half kids.

Eighteen million Americans did not try to take advantage of you by recklessly borrowing money for a home. Eighteen million Americans believed their bankers who told them they could afford these mortgages.

Eighteen million Americans believed their bankers when they told them their loans were safe.

The banks that lied to eighteen million Americans are to blame.

In all of the research I’ve done, no one says it better than Church Warnock, a self-described small-church pastor:. He doesn’t write for the Wall Street Journal, or the National Review, but he has a flock of people who are facing financial disasters. He says:

• Homeowners didn’t package and slice up mortgages into untraceable, unmeasurable and risky economic instruments.
• Homeowners didn’t relax the rules allowing banks to increase their debt-to-deposits ratio.
• Homeowners didn’t run the SEC, Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac whose lax oversight and loose policies allowed the Bernie Madoffs to steal billions, and predatory lenders to defraud millions.
• Homeowners didn’t create the shellgame called credit default swaps, a house of cards created by the lenders to provide the illusion that real “insurance” covered their loan portfolios.
• Homeowners didn’t create the housing bubble, or inflate the market price of property, or assure others that “your house value will always go up.”
• Homeowners didn’t rate the riskiest of financial instruments as sound and solid, like the rating agencies did. Those same agencies are supported by the companies they rate.

Eighteen million Americans had never heard of “Sub-Prime Mortgages, “Collateralized Debt Obligations,” or “Credit Default Swaps.” I had never heard of these things until I started researching this, and I’m not stupid.

I’ve posted this video before, but this is a good time to post it again. It’s called The Crisis of Credit, and it explains the complicated steps that put these risky mortgages in our hands. To expect the average person to have known all of this is absurd, and even cruel.

Were there abuses? Absolutely. Was there carelessness? Yes. Should we have been more thorough and self-educated? Obviously some of you were.

But we’re not all bankers, or financial gurus. We don't have financial consultants to safeguard our investments. Heck, we don’t all have the TIME to research these loans.

Additionally, how should it have occurred to us our banks might be lying to us?

A relative handful of rich Americans, who took advantage of relaxed regulations, complicated financial schemes, and just plain greed and even ruthlessness, are more to blame for this financial crisis than even one of these eighteen million famlies.

Spread the blame where it belongs, not totally on the backs of Americans who were trying to live the American Dream by purchasing the ONE investment we’ve all heard, all of our lives, is sound, profitable, and safe.

Elphaba

I would be very careful if I were you. 80% of what you said is very conservative.

Not that I don't want you to come over to the light side, but please take it slowly. Our hearts are not getting any younger you know.

Love ya

[its_Chet]

Originally Posted by Just_A_Guy

FWIW, just Saturday I was talking to a guy who has been trying to refinance his house. The loan officer told him he'd have a better chance of doing so if he got behind 2 or 3 months on his current loan first.

That's ridiculous.

My mother in law was given this exact same advice. And then she told me I should do it.

It's like I can actually hear Joseph Smith and Brigham Young's palms smacking their forheads in frustration.

[its_Chet]

It's been said before, but I agree that there's plenty of blame to go around. The people who signed up for ARMs and balloon payment loans, the thieving scoundrels like Madoff, the corrupt politicians like Barney Frank, the reckless practices of Fannie and Freddie, etc.

I would also add that I have a hard time sympathizing with real estate speculators who've gotten burned when I only own one house and it's where I'm trying to raise my family. To a point, I haven't got anything against people looking to enrich themselves off of real estate, but they ought to bare in mind that when they drive up prices (as they did in Maricopa County, Arizona), it makes it harder for would be homeowners to find a place to live. Thanks to what's going on in the world around me, I've had a paycut, an increase in my health insurance premiums, face rising energy costs and general inflation, and may actually get dragged down the drain even though I didn't pull the plug. I used to be able to afford my mortgage, but times are getting difficult. My "thanks" to those whose greed has put us all in this situation.

But really, I think the blame ultimately lies with those who have defied the will of God and have made a habit of mocking and insulting Him. I blame the people who refuse to observe the Sabbath. I blame the people who have abortions for convenience. I blame the people who violate the law of chastity and the word of wisdom. I blame the people who let their idea of right and wrong be inspired by one or another political party (especially one that celebrates perversity, obscenity, and militant secularism, among many other very bad ideas), instead of by the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

In short, we are living in Sodom and Gomorrah, and the burning sulphur is already starting to fall from the sky.

Thanks a lot to those people who couldn't be satisfied with their unholy practices and beliefs being kept to themselves, and instead insisted on having them broadcast on the street corners and in the town square. Thanks a lot to those who get all worked up about CO2 emissions but couldn't care less about "Bruno" playing at their local theatre.

The wicked are destroying this country. They are pulling down the wrath of a just God. And unfortunately, the rain falls on the just and the unjust alike. Time for us all to get our food storage. We may need it sooner than we may have thought.

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by boyando

I would be very careful if I were you. 80% of what you said is very conservative.

Not that I don't want you to come over to the light side, but please take it slowly. Our hearts are not getting any younger you know.

Love ya

Hey bro,

Take it as a sign that I really try hard to look at issues from all sides, instead of automatically taking my talking points from my favorite, or disdained, pundits.

Just imagine--perhaps the day will come when even I make Olbermann's "Worst Person in the World" award.

Nah.

Elphaba

[Palerider]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

Hey bro,

Take it as a sign that I really try hard to look at issues from all sides, instead of automatically taking my talking points from my favorite, or disdained, pundits.

Just imagine--perhaps the day will come when even I make Olbermann's "Worst Person in the World" award.

Nah.

Elphaba

I have been wondering where my favorite liberal has been lately.....nice to see you back....

[tefor]

Sheesh. How hard can it be to figure out? If you can't afford a $500K home, DON'T BUY IT. If you can't afford a $250K home, DON'T BUY IT. If you can't afford a $150K home, and can't find anything cheaper, then keep renting instead--and thank the Lord that you at least have a place to live (and can move with relatively little hassle, should the need arise).

Remember: "What is property unto me, saith the Lord?" (D&C 117:4)

Way back when my bishop was telling me that I needed to get with it and buy a house (the responsible thing to do), I told him that I couldn't afford it, and went my way. (When you're trying to get by on $35,000 a year with three special needs kids, the last thing you want to deal with is a mortgage.)

No matter what society, the banks, the government, or even the Church says, I know what I can afford, and the responsibility is mine--nobody else's. Same goes for anybody else who buys a home they can't afford.

[freckleface]

Originally Posted by talisyn

Now it's just very very sad. So who's to blame..the banks, the non-bank people, or those who have indoctrinated us into thinking every American should own a home because if you don't you're abnormal?

My family lived in a bus out in the deserts of S. Cali for 10 years. I learned a lot during that time, mostly that it's ok to live without credit of any kind and paying cash is a good thing. I may not be able to buy a car for $30,000..but you can bet I can pay cash for a $9,000 one

You are indeed a hero of mine, talisyn.

My husband and I owned a home which we sold a few years ago, in a very lovely, newly constructed neighborhood that was considered great for for it's schools and location. It was a street of about ten homes in total. One of the homes became a rental and had a very decent, nice, clean, family occupying it. However, the attitude of some people living on the street was very critical, negative and down right hateful. They were the only family the "self appointed mayor" wouldn't invite to street parties, and referred to in passing conversation as"renters, trash, or low life's." It was infuriating. My husband and I befriended the family and found that they were putting one of their kids through med school. Another one was in college. The home was always impeccable inside and the people extremely friendly. They became our friends and we disconnected from the others on the street, which was a huge sigh of relief.

I just don't get it. The mentality of "keeping up" with what society dictates to us as "normal" can be a downright prison. Provident living is defiantly something we should all strive for. And if it means renting . . . than more power to you!