How long before we take to the streets?

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by boyando

As I have stated before, my daily prayers include praying for the success of President Obama. What a shame it would be, if the first President from African-American decent went down in history, as one of the most hated. Hated not because he was African-American, but because of his desire to replace freedom with government control.

My question is how soon? And will I see you there?

Depending on the outcome of his third and fourth year of his tenure but I can see the direction the country is heading right now and that is not hard to see the facts are startling as it was in the last two years of Bush term. Giving there were a few presidents I could cast them as the worse service rendered to this nation, he may well be added to the list.

Let me correct the term African-American to African-Arab decedent. His mother was what culture and his father was from what culture?

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by Dravin

Source?

I've heard of various car companies refusing to renew contracts* with licensed dealerships in an effort to save money and possibly thin the heard to allow the more successful ones to succeed. You don't want to discuss if such is a good business decision or not, which is fine (so I won't) , but all I've heard is the companies not renewing contracts which they are free to do. I've not heard of a single government forced closure of a dealership (ones caught doing illegal things don't really count for your complaint), which is not to say they couldn't have happened but I'm just not ware of it.

So basically to cut to the chase, can you provide a cite where you are getting the information that the government is coming around and shutting down dealerships?

*This is not the same as closing a dealer, you just don't get the special deal on X brand anymore and the marketing aspect Random Joe's Ford/Lincoln/Mercury and what not. You can still sell cars and as long as you can sell enough of them at a high enough profit you can keep your doors open.

It is part of the Federal Bankruptcy terms and acceptance of TARP money, not from the actual automotive manufactures with closures of plants and dealership. Bringing another instance of government heavy handed rule, even medium to large banks, which revealed no losses as to BofA and Citibank faced were told to take TARP money. This is a known fact in the industry, as there are misgiving trusts in having government look over the shoulder or telling them on to loan money.

Success of the industry is to allow them to make their own decision. Do not forget, even Toyota and Honda have taken Japanese TARP money to keep them afloat during this crisis.

[FunkyTown]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

What freedoms are we missing? Over the entire course of my life I have never noticed any varying freedoms or felt less than 100% free.

You lost the right of Habeas Corpus under the Patriot Act.

That's just a fancy schmancy way of saying the government can take someone off the street and put them in a place where no human rights agencies are allowed to go and the government can keep you there for as long as the goverment wants. The caveat to that is that they have to suspect you of terrorism, but the government refuse to define what terrorism means.

So yes, you have lost rights: A very basic human right, in fact, that has been around since the 13th century. RIP Magna Carta.

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by FunkyTown

You lost the right of Habeas Corpus under the Patriot Act.

That's just a fancy schmancy way of saying the government can take someone off the street and put them in a place where no human rights agencies are allowed to go and the government can keep you there for as long as the goverment wants. The caveat to that is that they have to suspect you of terrorism, but the government refuse to define what terrorism means.

So yes, you have lost rights: A very basic human right, in fact, that has been around since the 13th century. RIP Magna Carta.

Lincoln suspended habeus corpus during the war between the states and I am guessing that Roosevelt also with the Japanese interment camps.

[its_Chet]

I remember when congress was set to vote on the bailout, all I could think about was the part in Terminator 3 where the General is hesitating as he decides whether or not to enable Skynet. Just as in the movie series Skynet caused the end of civilization as we know it, I sensed that the bailout would in a somewhat similar way initate a sequence of events that would be the undoing of this country.

That was before I found out it was going to cost $3 trillion. All I knew was that the country was in a bad financial situation and our government proposed to remedy it by spending unimaginable amounts of money. The way I see it, that's like trying to keep the Titanic from sinking by shoving chunks of iceberg in the holes in the hull, except for the fact that I can trust the ice.

I am no financial expert, and I don't read the news all day long, but that's not the point. It wasn't what I knew that told me the bailout was a bad idea. It was what I sensed. Something told me it was a sign of the times, that I should heed an unspoken warning. I have since felt an intensified drive to get my food storage in order.

Some people I have talked to are optimistic about the situation, saying that they think we may be on the road to recovery. I cannot refute that, and I certainly haven't got the economic knowledge necessary to debate it, beyond the most fundamental principles of basic personal economics. But one thing I do know is that there are things in motion now that could possibly mean the end of civilization as we know it. If our economy continues to go south, this could be the end. I find it worthy to note that in these times of gowing peril, we have "comedians" pulling stunts in public for the purpose of shocking, offending, and pushing the boundaries of societal conventions farther in the direction of Satan and sin. This is a time for mass repentance, and instead we are seeing the exact opposite. Babylon is growing stronger. Sodom and Gomorrah are stretching their tentacles into every community, and even in the most conservative of communities, we are hearing the deceived calling for normalization of that which is abominable. Not merely tolerance, but normalization.

Now is the time to prepare every needful thing. Now is the time to prepare our lamps and gather oil for them, because the Bridegroom is coming, and He is considerably closer today than He was just a couple of years ago. The judgements of God are beginning to weigh more heavily upon us.

I'm not even 40 years old, but I feel I can say that I was born on another world, in another time, when I look around at the world today. I think it's too late to save this world. I think the day of burning is irrevocably approaching.

I don't expect I'll be demonstrating in the streets. We may be beyond that point now, or soon will be. Our government has already labeled people like me as suspected terrorists, just because of our political beleifs, status as a veteran, etc. It is a shameless propaganda stunt, and I doubt the media is going to hold the government accountable for it. Rather, I believe the media is complicit.

Rather than demonstrating in the streets, I think I'll be building my year's supply of food and water, and standing in holy places, being not moved.

[talisyn]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

and also the 58,000,000 million who didn't vote him in........

And nobody died

[FunkyTown]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

Lincoln suspended habeus corpus during the war between the states and I am guessing that Roosevelt also with the Japanese interment camps.

Yep. And the Japanese Concentration Camps were monstrous miscarriages of justice.

Article I, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution states "The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it."

I don't see the US being invaded and I don't see this as a massive rebellion.

I agreed with the first use of it, disagreed with the second use of it, and the use of it now during a time period that is vague and indeterminate is ridiculous. When will terrorism no longer be a threat or a concern? When will habeas corpus be restored?

World War II had an end. The Civil War had an end. Who can sign the peace treaty in the war on terror? Who can end the bloodshed and restore order that will allow Habeas Corpus to be restored? Nobody. That part of the constitution is just so much garbage now.

[Dravin]

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

It is part of the Federal Bankruptcy terms and acceptance of TARP money, not from the actual automotive manufactures with closures of plants and dealership. Bringing another instance of government heavy handed rule, even medium to large banks, which revealed no losses as to BofA and Citibank faced were told to take TARP money. This is a known fact in the industry, as there are misgiving trusts in having government look over the shoulder or telling them on to loan money.

I'm still gonna need a citation that the government is forcing dealerships closed. I'm also not entirely sure of what you are trying to say.

A) Banks taking money were somehow forced to close dealerships (which they can't do, though I suppose they could demand payment of debt right now).
B) It was part of the bankruptcy and bailout terms for the auto companies to shape up (aka, no money unless you actually try to make a profit so nix the licenses).
C) It was part of the bankruptcy terms and completely and utterly random with no motivation such as trying to steer said companies out of bankruptcy (Its not going to affect your bottom line, but death to dealerships, kill the licenses).
D) Something entirely different.

Neither B nor C fit the bill (not even A really). Unless you are a company owned dealership no matter what pressure the government puts on an auto company they cannot shut you down. And banks don't have the power to shut you down, they can demand you pay them in full as per any loans you've taken out and not give you any wiggle room but that is not the government shutting you down.

[changed]

I know, this may or may not be accurate... but parts of it are starting to sound accurate to me...

http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/whitehorse.pdf

You will see the constitution of the United States almost destroyed. It will hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber.... The time will come when the banks of every nation will fall and only two places will be safe where people can deposit their gold and treasure.... A terrible revolution will take place in America such has never been seen before; for the land will be left without a Supreme government, and every specie of wickedness will be practiced rampantly in the land. ...

We were told in the last GC that we are in decline... .
LDS.org - Ensign Article - Learning the Lessons of the Past

The 179 years that have passed since The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was officially organized have been extraordinary by any measure. Never in recorded history has there been a period of such remarkable progress in terms of science and technology. These advances have helped to facilitate gospel growth and expansion throughout the world. But they have also contributed to the rise of materialism and self-indulgence and to the decline of morality.

We live in an era when the boundaries of good taste and public decency are being pushed to the point where there are no boundaries at all. The commandments of God have taken a beating in the vacillating marketplace of ideas that absolutely rejects the notion of right and wrong. Certain factions of society seem generally mistrustful of anyone who chooses to live according to religious belief. And when people of faith attempt to warn others of the possible consequences of their sinful choices, they are scoffed at and ridiculed, and their most sacred rites and cherished values are publicly mocked.

Does any of this sound familiar, my young brothers and sisters? Do you see the historical pattern emerging again—the pattern of righteousness followed by prosperity, followed by material comforts, followed by greed, followed by pride, followed by wickedness and a collapse of morality—the same pattern we’ve seen again and again within the pages of the Old and New Testaments and the Book of Mormon? More importantly, what impact will the lessons of the past have on the personal choices you make right now and for the rest of your lives?

[boyando]

Originally Posted by Dravin

I'm still gonna need a citation that the government is forcing dealerships closed. I'm also not entirely sure of what you are trying to say.

A) Banks taking money were somehow forced to close dealerships (which they can't do, though I suppose they could demand payment of debt right now).
It was part of the bankruptcy and bailout terms for the auto companies to shape up (aka, no money unless you actually try to make a profit so nix the licenses).
C) It was part of the bankruptcy terms and completely and utterly random with no motivation such as trying to steer said companies out of bankruptcy (Its not going to affect your bottom line, but death to dealerships, kill the licenses).
D) Something entirely different.

Neither B nor C fit the bill (not even A really). Unless you are a company owned dealership no matter what pressure the government puts on an auto company they cannot shut you down. And banks don't have the power to shut you down, they can demand you pay them in full as per any loans you've taken out and not give you any wiggle room but that is not the government shutting you down.

In some ways, you are right.The government has not stated that they want to close dealerships, but revoke franchise rights to some dealerships.

What you don't seem to acknowledge is that in the letter to revoke these franchise rights, they were given two options. Sell the inventory that you currently have on hand, to another dealership, at less than what you payed for it or sell your inventory with out franchise rights and there for no warranty.

Neither option states that the government is shutting dealerships down but the result is the same. In fact, you could say that it is Chrysler and G.M. that are setting off this chain reaction, if you wanted to strech.

By the way, one reason that you don't hear to much about this is because of the gag order that is being put on all dealerships at this time, not allowing you to hear much.

I first head about how these dealerships were being closed on the Glen Beck show and wanted to make sure that it was not being exaggerated, so I talked to friends of mine in the auto industry, who worked for dealerships who were not closing, and only one would tell me what he know was going on. He/she (this person doesn't what to recognized) said that in the meeting that he/she attended, they were not suppose to talk about why they could sell at such a great price.

Hey, we all see what we want to see, but eventually,just like 10% unemployment, we all see the elephant in the room.