Pending Health Care Legislation

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Just_A_Guy

Yeah; it has to do with a preference (in this regard) for liberty over security.

Sounds like this view of liberty makes us into paltry keepers for our brothers.

[Kawazu]

Originally Posted by Moksha

Sounds like this view of liberty makes us into paltry keepers for our brothers.

Charity is good. Voluntary donations are an excellent way to support great causes.

[anatess]

Originally Posted by talisyn

I wish I had your faith in the insurance companies
I hate being cynical

I don't! That's why I opted for a Health Savings Account!

[anatess]

Originally Posted by Just_A_Guy

I feel I have to speak up for my chosen profession here. Yes, there are some silly suits out there and there are certainly lawyers who milk the system. But by and large, malpractice insurance costs a lot because medical mistakes cost a lot. A doctor who botches a $1500 surgery doesn't owe the patient $1500; he owes $1500 plus the extra $50,000 per year the patient could have made, for the length of the patient's natural work-life expectancy. One slipped scalpel, and a surgeon can find himself owing a patient (and/or his survivors) well over a million dollars--and that's assuming you don't take into account punitive damages and/or additional compensation for pain and suffering.

Some tweaking may be necessary. But if you eliminate malpractice claims, you're going to have even more people who have no choice but to look to government (read: taxpayer) for their day-to-day maintenance.

I did not say to eliminate... I said to reform it. My brother is a neurologist. He refuses to come to America. Why... because doctors in America are not taught to diagnose anymore. They are taught to send stuff to the lab which costs a lot of unnecessary money. And why is that... because a doctor's diagnoses is worth next to nothing in court. Only lab is proof.

You have a patient who is about to die on the ER table. The ER doctor on-call makes a snap decision to save the man's life. The man lives but with numbness on one arm. The doctor felt he did all he could do at the moment to save the man's life. Maybe the numbness could have been avoided. But, it doesn't matter. The guy is going to sue anyway. So, what, let the man die to avoid a malpractice lawsuit?

I live in Florida. Land of the sue-happy with jurors awarding patients millions for a headache... all because of one idiot doctor in Tampa who cut the wrong leg. Good luck trying to find a good OB here. They don't practice anymore. What's the point when malpractice insurance costs $120,000 a year?

I can go on and on about this. Especially the goopla on the ballot where Florida Medical Association tried to play hardball against the Florida Lawyers and the voters didn't even bother to figure out what the heck was going on. So, instead of getting a reform, it got worse...

[Palerider]

Then you have a Dr thats over the lab and gets a fee for supposedly reading the Lab results....which he doesn't read...because they go to the Dr who requested the test.

[anatess]

Originally Posted by Moksha

You are not alone. Every industrialized country on Earth has a health care system except for the United States. We are unique in that our values do not extend to taking care of the basic health care needs of everyone.

Will you stop and think about what you are saying??? Don't you know that you can go to any ER in any state in the US and get treated without having to pay a dime??? What do you call that? Are you asked for cash when you go to a hospital? A dentist, yes, but not a hospital! Geesh, even drug addicts with gunshot wounds from gang wars can walk into an ER and cannot be turned down.

I'm sorry but healthcare is AN INDIVIDUAL responsibility! What really cheeses me off are these idiots saying "I can't afford healthcare for my family" while washing down his BMW or changing channels on his widescreen TV! And then there are all these idiots thinking the taxpayers should support their coronary from eating 500 grams of fat a day!

Look at your school system. My Filipino education can run circles around any of your American public schools. And why is that? Because it is run by a government that has figured out a way to eliminate competition necessary to maintain quality. The land of the free, supposed to be, and you are not even free to take your child to any school you want to without having to pay ANOTHER education expense in addition to the education tax dollars you are already paying. So, your kid is in this ratty high school with gangs littering the halls... too bad... you're stuck with it! Land of the Free.

And you want the same thing for your healthcare?

You want to take care of your poor, go take a percentage of your income and sponsor a poor cancer patient or something! Nobody is stopping you from doing that now! But no... you won't... because you just want to let everybody else do it as long as it doesn't have to be you.

Okay, I'll step off my podium now.

[john doe]

Originally Posted by Moksha

Sounds like this view of liberty makes us into paltry keepers for our brothers.

The problem with this view is that government-sponsored and -mandated 'keeping of our brothers' is expensive and wasteful. It also makes us lazy 'keepers' because we assume the government is taking care of the problem, when in fact, they are making it worse. Charity for our brothers comes from the heart, not from the government. I am all for being my brother's keeper, but I should be the one to determine who to give to and how much I can afford to give, not the government.

[Bob_Blaylock]

This is the Unites States of America, not the Союз Советских Социалистических Республик. Our society is not founded on the idea that government should take from us that which we have earned, and in return, give us what it thinks we need. “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” is not our motto. (Though that could change, now that we've elected a President whose philosophies are far more in line with those of Karl Marx than with those of the great men who founded this nation.)

We do not expect Big Brother to provide us with food and housing and clothing and transportation and all the other needs and wants of life. It is up to us to buy these things ourselves with our own earnings. Medical care is no different. There is no reason why any American who understands the Constitution, and the principles on which this nation was founded, and agrees therewith, should expect Big Brother to provide us with medical care; indeed, there is no reason why any such American should even tolerate the idea.

Since the administration of FDR, we have foolishly allowed our government to become far too big, and far too burdensome, and have sacrificed far too much of our freedom and prosperity in exchange for an illusion of safety and security. As Benjamin Franklin wrote, “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

[Just_A_Guy]

Originally Posted by Moksha

Sounds like this view of liberty makes us into paltry keepers for our brothers.

Well, some of us, anyways.

[hordak]

Originally Posted by goofball

Nobody gets turned away from the ER which is why you find people there at odd hours of the night to be treated for their cold or ear ache.

I think allot of that is our, "want a quick fix" attitude in America as well. My wife is a medic at the base hospital (everyone seen there pays nothing/ has "free health" care) and yet still during her time in the ER 95 out of 100 patients she saw in a shift came in for colds , ear aches and other non emergency issues. These people could have have called the appt line and seen their PCM in a day or 2 but didn't want to wait.