Entitlement society

[Traveler]

I thought I would start this thread because most people do not understand how entitlement oriented we all have become, what their entitlement mentality does for them or what it costs them. I will begin with my own eye opening experience. Some years ago I was one of 3 principle engineers in a leading engineering company that dominated their market with an ownership of 80%. I could not imagine a better life. I received yearly bonuses, stock options and all the benefits we have gotten use to in our American work force. The company I worked for made some serious management mistakes and the economy took a down tern. Major layoffs were eminent. A VP friend of mine warned me that two of the three principle engineers would be laid off in 6 months.

I began looking but quickly found that there were little opportunities for a senior engineer. I would have accepted even an offer for half my salary – but no employer believed I would stay. Then I was contacted by a company that knew of me indirectly (through other engineers they had hired) wanting to use me as a consultant. Long story short I doubled my pay and started a consulting company of one employee.

I transitioned very quickly from an entitlement mentality to a non-entitlement mentality. As a consulting engineer I am paid only for work I do. I do not get a dime paid vacation or sick leave. I do not get any insurance benefits, I pay all my social security (no company contributions) and I have no guarantees of anything. At anytime I can be told my contract is over and no one has to give any reason and I have no hope of any kind of discrimination claim – ever – even if there is obvious and blatant discrimination. I have only one entitlement – my pay for what I do.

At first it was really hard to think things through. My wife would want me to take a week off for vacation. Taking a week off would cost us $5,000 before we spent a dime on the vacation. That was a hard pill to swallow. But I did learn that I could do all the things I have ever done but I now realized what the price tag was and I could decide if it was worth it. I am convinced that most of us would not be willing to pay the price we pay for our entitlement benefits. I have discovered that I do not want the best coverage health insurance. In fact I currently carry a $10,000 deductible. But what is wild; I have negotiated a cash deal with my doctor that bypasses all the paper work for them and I see him for regular checkups that are less than my co-payments use to be.

I have adjusted and I am better off for it. But what I have come to realize is that everybody talks about the entitlement of others – but fail to see their own entitlement mentality. I am convinced that without entitlements most workers would soon be out of a job – especially management. But can you imagine what would have happened in the banking industry if those responsible for misuse of loans got no pay and no benefits for their effort plus they lost their jobs as soon as a problem or loss was discovered? We can imagine how a non-entitlement mentality would affect politics?

Entitlements are out of control and it is not the Democrats fault or the Republicans. It is the countries fault – but we do believe that we are entitled to politicians that represent us – even though we do not follow up to insure that they do. We think we are entitled to businesses that do not cheat us – even though we refuse to do our home work before we enlist their services.

But worse of all we think we are entitled to live to blame everybody but ourselves for being entitlement minded.

The Traveler

[Loudmouth_Mormon]

Someone told me this thread was where you sign up for yer Obama money. So when does my check get here?

[BenRaines]

Traveler, I have been self employed most of my life and could not agree with you more. I too carry high deductibles for emergency medical procedures. I do not go to hospital on weekend for an ear ache or a cough or fever.

Ben Raines

[utcowboy]

Awesome post Traveler and Ben... thanks

[Heavenguard]

I see how the young people of this generation think they're entitled to everything at everyone else's expense. It's a matter of parenting and spoiled rotten kids. My best friend teaches 3 and 4 year olds, and she says kids don't ask for their parents to help them do/get things (when they come to pick up their kids), but just demand it - and the parents just do it. No please, no thank you, not even asking - they order their parents around. *Shake head*

[ploomf]

Well look at how successful schemes like the Nigerian scam is. This scheme works by cashing in on peoples greed and entitlement. Despite all the press this scam gets people still believe that somewhere there is someone that has a bank account full of millions of dollars that they will give them and they don’t have to do a single thing to earn it. I work in fraud prevention and the more successful scams to get information from people work by playing on their greed, the person that promises to get them a phone that the company is selling for $300 for only $1 if they send him their account information, the person that calls and offers them a credit on their account or a rebate if only they will “verify” their account information, all those scams play on peoples greed.

[Dravin]

As a consulting engineer I am paid only for work I do. I do not get a dime paid vacation or sick leave. I do not get any insurance benefits, I pay all my social security (no company contributions) and I have no guarantees of anything.

That's just part of the compensation package though, how many people will take a job with less pay in pocket because it has better 'bennies'? Looks like you've done the opposite to an extent, you've swapped bennies as being part of your compensation to just straight pay. People value things different, nothing wrong with that.

This is besides your main point, there is a sense of entitlement going around and it is not doing us any good and I agree with that.

[DigitalShadow]

I am currently employed, paid well, get vacation and sick days, health insurance, etc... but I don't take it for granted or feel entitled. I know that those extras are not "free" and that they cost money for the company I work for, but I also know I could become a consultant or independent contractor and give up those extras for doubling my pay. Right now I'm simply happy and thankful for what I have though.

I somewhat resent the implication that people who work "normal" career type jobs are inherently entitlement oriented, but I do understand what you're talking about and think most people take far too many things for granted and expect unconditional protection from their own blunders. I blame the parents who raise their kids to have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.

[Vort]

Originally Posted by Traveler

I thought I would start this thread because most people do not understand how entitlement oriented we all have become, what their entitlement mentality does for them or what it costs them.

I expect you are right on all these points.

Originally Posted by Traveler

Long story short I doubled my pay and started a consulting company of one employee.

I transitioned very quickly from an entitlement mentality to a non-entitlement mentality. As a consulting engineer I am paid only for work I do. I do not get a dime paid vacation or sick leave. I do not get any insurance benefits, I pay all my social security (no company contributions) and I have no guarantees of anything. At anytime I can be told my contract is over and no one has to give any reason and I have no hope of any kind of discrimination claim – ever – even if there is obvious and blatant discrimination. I have only one entitlement – my pay for what I do.

Makes sense. I have experienced similar things.

Originally Posted by Traveler

At first it was really hard to think things through. My wife would want me to take a week off for vacation. Taking a week off would cost us $5,000 before we spent a dime on the vacation. That was a hard pill to swallow.

Uh...you lost me, emotionally speaking.

If you are making a quarter of a million dollars per year (!!!) and yet you're still worrying about "losing" five thousand dollars for taking a week's vacation, I think your viewpoint is sufficiently different from my own that we might not have much of a common basis. Many of us have never voluntarily taken a week's vacation in our lives, or have only done so only once or twice in twenty years. If I were making money at the rate of five grand a week, I would be set for life within five years and in any case would not think twice about taking a week off to vacation with my family.

Feeling like you're "entitled" to full health care through your job is not a good or admirable attitude, I completely agree, but it's a whole lot different than feeling like you're "entitled" to take a week-long vacation without "losing" pay that you wouldn't be working for, anyway. They may perhaps be two ends of the same stick, but that's a pretty long stick.

Originally Posted by Traveler

But I did learn that I could do all the things I have ever done but I now realized what the price tag was and I could decide if it was worth it.

Do you see the disconnect of making this statement when your expectation is to take a weeklong vacation, and others' expectation may be to make the rent in their rent-controlled apartment?

I don't disagree with anything you say, except maybe for this:

Originally Posted by Traveler

Entitlements are out of control and it is not the Democrats fault or the Republicans.

I think it's most definitely the Democrats' fault, and for that matter the Republicans' fault, too.

In any case, I think you speak the truth. More than that, you speak wisdom. But I find a lot of listener interference hearing such platitudes coming from someone making such a vast sum of money and then lecturing others, many of whom might be living near (or at, or even below) the poverty line, and might not make as much money in a year as you make in a month. It sounds like when a first-world missionary wrinkles his nose at his third-world charges and lectures them on the virtues of good hygiene, or when a privileged capitalist explains to impoverished communists how a healthy work ethic can really help you get ahead in the world.

[anatess]

Originally Posted by Vort

In any case, I think you speak the truth. More than that, you speak wisdom. But I find a lot of listener interference hearing such platitudes coming from someone making such a vast sum of money and then lecturing others, many of whom might be living near (or at, or even below) the poverty line, and might not make as much money in a year as you make in a month. It sounds like when a first-world missionary wrinkles his nose at his third-world charges and lectures them on the virtues of good hygiene, or when a privileged capitalist explains to impoverished communists how a healthy work ethic can really help you get ahead in the world.

I don't understand this statement. My impression is that you're trying to say that the poor and downtrodden are "entitled to entitlement"...

The poor and downtrodden have a different challenge than the 250 grand a year dude. There is no difference in their "entitlements". Just because you are poor doesn't make you entitled to anything more than the rich guy. Now, as a person of means, I might use my means to be charitable and help out the poor guy... that is an opportunity for me to exercise charity and an opportunity for the poor guy to exercise gratitude... We all have our journey in life... wealth doesn't necessarily make it any easier. You can ask Michael Jackson.