Obama's Healthcare?? Plan

[prospectmom]

PALe don't you know Congress and the Senate have the best healthcare money can buy. Why would they want to change?????

[Palerider]

Originally Posted by prospectmom

PALe don't you know Congress and the Senate have the best healthcare money can buy. Why would they want to change?????

Thats another reason why.....when they all start telling me how good anything is and this will be great for me and everyone....I want to run and hide my wallet......I know the Tax man is coming....

They should have the same care as us....

[Churchmouse]

Originally Posted by prospectmom

He did this with the economy. Elected officials didn't even get a chance to read the package before it was voted on.

Are you serious.. Congress and Senate put their own wants into the bill and werer willing to let it go through because they got their part....... No one was willing to look ahead to see the consequences. The senate and congress were tooo full of greed to get it what they individually wanted.


As for the King part.

Luckily we have a constitution..... and no he can not make a decision like a king could. Aren't we to be respectful to our persons in office especially our president even if we disagree with the policy.

The more I see about this the more it looks like we are on the road to elderly euthanasia.

Can you please show me wher in the proposed bill it any way states this?????

Well, Mrs. Obama, let's see what your husband, the King said.

During one of his town meetings a lady asked about her 105 "very active" mother. She does her own housekeeping, shopping and has a social life. Now she needs a transplant. She asked the King what his plan would do. He said maybe she should be put on morphine rather than receive a transplant at her age. Letting someone die that could otherwise return to a normal life sounds like euthanasia to me. I would prefer that a doctor help me make that decision rather than some government flunky.
Now. You tell me where in the Bill it says anything? If Congress hasn't even read it I doubt that you have. You need to remove MoveOn.org from your Favorite's List

[Churchmouse]

Originally Posted by MarginOfError

Well, if the President's vision of health care were to be realized, it would look a lot like the health care system for which I work. This health care system is rated in the top 5 in the country, and maintains its own health insurance plan that is quite effective at minimizing cost.

I think it's wonderful that you have more confidence in the plan that Congressman from his own party and that you are more knowledgeable than the majority of Americans that are opposed to the plan.

[Churchmouse]

Originally Posted by Moksha

What an off-the-wall idea. Euthanasia is much more likely in a society that lets people die from lack of health care because they lack health insurance or else have a preexisting condition.

In 1958, legal, government paid for abortion was an off-the-wall idea.

[Gatorman]

Well, sounds like someone works for a company like Kaiser P. The difference, those are companies. The government needs to encourage such companies to exist and proceed. I work for a company that is self insured. They contract with Beechstreet for the provider network, BUT, they give us the amounts they are willing to pay and we can go to any doctor and show it to them and say 'If you want me as a patient, here is what you get paid'. Puts more control in our hands.

[FunkyTown]

Originally Posted by Churchmouse

I think it's wonderful that you have more confidence in the plan that Congressman from his own party and that you are more knowledgeable than the majority of Americans that are opposed to the plan.

Uh... Churchmouse? What Obama said is the same under the current system. If she wants a transplant at her age, she has to be able to afford it. And there needs to be a matching donor.

The health plan doesn't include any required euthanasia plans, nor does it force people to use its coverage. If someone can afford better coverage, they will get that.

NE StatePaper.com - FactCheck.org Documents False Euthanasia Claims

That, plus a quick trip to factcheck.org will show you're incorrect. If you have a beef with the President, please stick to real issues (Like overspending, or questioning the efficacy of this health care) rather than lying outright. It hurts your cause and the cause of all conservatives.

[Gatorman]

Common Sense Health Care Reform Plan -

1 - Government has no authority under the constitution to be involved in health care or business
2 - No requirement to provide healthcare to any person in the country illegally.
3 - Government enticement to businesses and health care systems to become self insured, ala Kaiser Permanente.
4 - Allow physicians to make necessary decisions and get paid based on out comes, not based on tests run.
5 - If using a procedure based system, link it to medically accepted best practices and require exceptions to be well documented, but possible.

Now, forgive my words if they do not seem to describe this well. The ideas are the issue, not how I fail at describing them.

[MarginOfError]

Originally Posted by Churchmouse

Well, Mrs. Obama, let's see what your husband, the King said.

During one of his town meetings a lady asked about her 105 "very active" mother. She does her own housekeeping, shopping and has a social life. Now she needs a transplant. She asked the King what his plan would do. He said maybe she should be put on morphine rather than receive a transplant at her age. Letting someone die that could otherwise return to a normal life sounds like euthanasia to me. I would prefer that a doctor help me make that decision rather than some government flunky.
Now. You tell me where in the Bill it says anything? If Congress hasn't even read it I doubt that you have. You need to remove MoveOn.org from your Favorite's List

Strange that you would say such a thing, because all of the urologists I know would say exactly what President Obama said. In fact, the standard practice would be to put the 105 year old lady as low priority on the transplant list. If a kidney became available and it didn’t provide a match for anyone higher up on the list, then she is welcome to it. However, her position on the waiting list will be extremely low primarily because of her age. It’s also important to remember that transplantation is a brutal procedure. Many transplant patients are advised to reduce their activity for 1 – 2 years following the transplant while the body learns to accept the new organ. While all this is taking place, heavy immunosuppressants are administered to prevent the body from rejecting the organ. This leaves the patient susceptible to all sorts of illness and disease. Under these conditions, it is highly unlikely that a woman 105 years of age would ever return to anything like her pre-transplant level of activity or health.

Originally Posted by Churchmouse

I think it's wonderful that you have more confidence in the plan that Congressman from his own party and that you are more knowledgeable than the majority of Americans that are opposed to the plan.

It amuses me that you would rant and rave about how ignorant and irresponsible liberal members of Congress are and then hide behind them to justify your point. And yes, being someone that works in healthcare, investigates procedural and medical decisions, and looks for ways to improve health care administration for each patient, yeah, I’d say I have a little more knowledge in the topic than your average American. Without hesitation, I’d say I have more knowledge than you do.

Originally Posted by Churchmouse

In 1958, legal, government paid for abortion was an off-the-wall idea.

Living wills are end-of-life care paperwork are not euthanasia as you would put it. Saying that these documents are euthanasia is as ignorant as saying that Hospice care is euthanasia. Let’s actually look at what Obama proposed. He proposed that at about age 60 or 65, each patient would be required to complete paperwork specifying how doctors should respond if the patient is in a medical crisis and unable to communicate their desires to their doctors. This paperwork would be updated every five years.

This has a couple of advantages. 1) the physicians can retrieve the documents in an emergency and provide treatment according to the patient’s wishes, whether that be to administer end-of-life care or to do everything possible to save the patient’s life at all costs. 2) the health care system doesn’t have to search out next of kin to get permission or instruction on how to proceed. The proposal was never to force end-of-life care on seniors. It was to make arrangements so that the decision would be made ahead of time, which prevents wasted time before treatment when an emergency arises.

You might also consider the fact that many health care systems are asking patients to fill these out routinely. When my wife and I pre-admitted to the hospital for the birth of our daughter, the hospital gave us the information on how to specify our wishes regarding end-of-life care. My wife was 27 years old at the time. Why is it so outrageous that we would ask 65 year old people—the group of people that, generally speaking, have the highest risk of death—to specify what course of action they would like physicians to take in a medical emergency?

Accuse me and others of drinking the kool-aid all you want, but you’ve got a pretty thick streak of red on your lip yourself.

[FunkyTown]

Originally Posted by MarginOfError

Accuse me and others of drinking the kool-aid all you want, but you’ve got a pretty thick streak of red on your lip yourself.

Everyone's drinking Kool-aid? Oh no!

Oh no!