Amsterdam teaches Bill O'Reilly a thing or two.

[jadams_4040]

Originally Posted by bytebear

I don't think Amsterdam is a cesspool of corruption, but I certainly think it would shock people what isn't shown in the rebuttal video. I visited Amsetdam several years ago, and I saw a Hooters type restaurant where the bar maids would strip down the male patrons to full nudity as they danced on the tables. This was not in the red light district and it was an open sidewalk restaurant so I saw this while just walking down the street.

Now, when you go to the red light district, things are considerably more sexual, with pornography that includes bestiality. It was quite an eye opener. Just because you have a society that largely ignores the vices it allows, doesn't mean we should accept such vices as the reason for their happiness or low crime rates.

well billo outta know; im sure he spends a lot of time there.

[Maxel]

I haven't watched the videos (can't right now), but the idea of the citizens of a country accused of being corrupt defending their country seems to be a disingenuous setup.

C.S. Lewis once said that the bad man thinks he is good and the good man knows he is bad. That is, the closer one is to being 'good', the more (s)he realizes the flaws in his/her character. The closer one is to being 'bad', the less one understands just how bad (s)he is.

So, if Amsterdam is corrupt its people may very well be corrupt. Would they understand and know of their own corruptness?

That being said, I have no idea what the videos contain so I cannot pass judgment on them. I did think the setup interesting, though- I'll be on later when I can watch them.

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by jadams_4040

well billo outta know; im sure he spends a lot of time there.

So...your saying that Amsterdam is a cesspool and you agree with O'Reilly??? Or are you suggesting that since O'Reilly is a conservative...(politically independent and maybe even moderate actually) that he probably frequents where Bytebear is describing? Since you are so sure he spends time there....perhaps you could produce some evidence to substantiate your typical unsupported smear.

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by Maxel

I haven't watched the videos (can't right now), but the idea of the citizens of a country accused of being corrupt defending their country seems to be a disingenuous setup.

Or perhaps the people of Amsterdam are responding to the disingenuous distortions blithely flung out by O’Reilly and Crowley.

For example: Crowley said:

In the Netherlands is a cesspool of corruption, crime. Everything’s out of control . . . It’s anarchy.

She is wrong.

Regarding the corruption and out-of-control crime:

http://www.nrc.nl/international/article2246821.ece/Netherlands_to_close_prisons_for_lack_of_criminals
Netherlands to close prisons for lack of criminals

Published: 19 May 2009 16:31 | Changed: 20 May 2009 15:35
By our news desk

The Dutch justice ministry has announced it will close eight prisons and cut 1,200 jobs in the prison system. A decline in crime has left many cells empty.

During the 1990s the Netherlands faced a shortage of prison cells, but a decline in crime has since led to overcapacity in the prison system. The country now has capacity for 14,000 prisoners but only 12,000 detainees.
Deputy justice minister Nebahat Albayrak announced on Tuesday that eight prisons will be closed, resulting in the loss of 1,200 jobs. Natural redundancy and other measures should prevent any forced lay-offs, the minister said.

The overcapacity is a result of the declining crime rate, which the ministry's research department expects to continue for some time.

Regarding the Netherlands corrupt drug use:

The O'Reilly Factor has no place in Dutch culture

. . . . And no matter which statistics you use (O'Reilly claimed on 3 August that the Netherlands “does statistics differently” than the United States), the Netherlands has less drug use, drug-related crime and less crime in general among its population than the United States.

The Centre for Drugs Research, a former institute affiliated with the University of Amsterdam, reported that even in Amsterdam only 38.1 percent of the population had tried marijuana in their lifetimes as of 2001.

In 2005, the United States average was 40.3 percent compared to 22.6 percent of the entire Dutch population. Amsterdam is certainly higher than the national average, but hardly a disaster.

Regarding the Netherlands corrupt healthcare:

Remember, this is the same country (Amsterdam) that ranked first in a child well-being survey of 21 industrialised countries conducted by Unicef in 2007.

The survey scored countries across a number of categories, including relative poverty, educational and health standards, sexual behaviour and the children's relationship with friends and parents.

The United States placed at number 20. Out of 21.

C.S. Lewis once said that the bad man thinks he is good and the good man knows he is bad. That is, the closer one is to being 'good', the more (s)he realizes the flaws in his/her character. The closer one is to being 'bad', the less one understands just how bad (s)he is.

In this situation, Bill O’Reilly comes to mind.

So, if Amsterdam is corrupt its people may very well be corrupt. Would they understand and know of their own corruptness?

This is a straw man. It would be impossible for all of the people in Amsterdam to be corrupt.

That being said, I have no idea what the videos contain so I cannot pass judgment on them. I did think the setup interesting, though- I'll be on later when I can watch them.

Why would you assume a disingenuous setup, which you implied above, if you hadn’t even watched the video yet?

Actually, there are now close to 1000 videos on Youtube, defending Amsterdam from the likes of O’Reilly’s and Crowley’s odious comments. Additionally, the original video I linked to has, at my last look, over 2000 responses.

Elphaba

Later edit: I don't mean to suggest there is absolutely no corruption in the country, as I believe there is. I just don't believe it's on the scale that O'Rielly and Crowley said it is, and I certainly don't believe the average person in Amsterdam is corrupt. E.

[Moksha]

I think it is a good thing Bill O'Reilly broadcasts from God's Wrath, Georgia, as opposed to such places as New York and Los Angeles.

BTW, my favorite Bill O'Reilly rants are the ones done by Steven Colbert.



(don't worry, not a real cigarette)

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by Moksha

I think it is a good thing Bill O'Reilly broadcasts from God's Wrath, Georgia, as opposed to such places as New York and Los Angeles.

BTW, my favorite Bill O'Reilly rants are the ones done by Steven Colbert.



(don't worry, not a real cigarette)

Why does this remind me of a South Park episode?

I guess I'm on my own on that one, eh?

Elph

[dazed-and-confused]

LOL....you incredible woman......see?..THIS is what i love and have missed about you, elph. what a great post, thank you.


whoa, ok...so i wrote down all this stuff about how i first got high as a H.S. sophomore in '68, and all kinds of stuff, and re-read it and thought......SO WHAT!...WHO CARES?

weed allowed me to feel things that i had to shut down as a matter of self-preservation...but feel them in a way that, for me, was safe and beneficial, as well as feeling things about myself that re-inforced the awareness that there are many people in the world who just dont have a clue...about the facets of life and spirit...about true human potential that goes WAY beyond being "blessed" with a good job so you can buy lots of "stuff".
life goes WAY past "the world".
elph, sounds like your husband had other "issues" than weed...as did i.....so is it the adverse effects of the weed?..or a reflection of other issues going on within someones mind/brain/conciousness/whatever.

THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OF DRUG USAGE!!!!!

fact is, for all the benefits i experienced, there were consequences.

i do believe that there is too much political history about weed which started in the 30's (?) or before...give or take.....history channel has good stuff about illegal drugs and how they got that way.

thing is...people take what they hear, and have heard for a while, and treat it as truth when, in fact, it might just be a bunch of political BS based on someones own selfinterest.

weed allowed me to see that TRUTH, real, ultimate, universal, absolute bottom line, TRUTH, is something that needs to be found for one-self, as an experience, not a mental exercise...and DEFINATELY not because someone else who is listened to (TV people, politicians, ANYONE)
says so.

it is about a one-on-one with God...if that is your reference for the ULTIMATE.....or whatever your ULTIMATE may be......clearly something greater than yourself..greater to the point that you feel like a speck in the grand scheme of things......lol..if, in fact, you even see things in some sort of grand scheme.

all others are just guides that may be of help along the way.....ALL others.....imo..it comes down to me (you) and God...period.

[bytebear]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

That is why I trust the citizens of Amsterdam to know what they're talking about, rather than the far right pundits who exploit the city to further their own agenda.

We can assume we know you, PC, inside and out, but we don't. It would take spending a great deal of time with you, and listening to you, watching you, and you opening up and showing us the shadow within.

Most importantly, you'd have to want to be known, for without that, the whole effort would fail.

The same is true for a city. Unless you have lived there, you cannot discover its nuances, its heart, its virtues and its vices. That's why it's ridiculous for anyone, regardless of who, to believe s/he "knows" enough about a city to criticize it.

They all do it, both on the left and the right. I don't know one conservative who admits the benefits of another country's health care systems, and I do not know one liberal who admits its flaws. I mean that literally.

Didn't your mother ever tell you nothing in life is fair?

Seriously, though, how is it "fair" for O'Reilly to demonize a city he knows nothing about? Is his mistake fair because other pundits have criticized him? Or do you mean something else?

"That's not fair," seems so juvenile to me. It makes me want to tell them all to grow up and quit trying to man each other up.

Amsterdam is not the only city that bristles at all of the criticisms the far right keeps insisting are true. The following are some links to articles about this:

Britain's National Health Service and the "Appreciation of Life"
Britain Defends its national health care system
UK health system hits back at US critics
'Sick Around the World': Contrasting U.S. Health Care with 5 Other Capitalist Countries

I think we have plenty of evidence that numerous poweful corporations cannot be trusted. I do believe liberals acknowledge it, where conservatives don't. But, for some reason, liberals dance around the obvious, for fear of having to stare down the big bad scary conservatives. Bleh.

I also think there are a vast number of major corporations that can be trusted.

I've never said the government is more objective, and I don't personally know anyone who would do so either. Anyone who truly believed this would be very naive.

I do believe our government representatives are trying very hard to be a force for good, which is exactly what they should be doing. They're not potted plants--they're activists who are commmitted to representing their constituencies the best way they know how. Of course he will be criticized by his opponents, and they may even be right. But I do believe their motivation is for the good, as they understand it. That is how it should be.

I'm not sure what your point is, given the subject is Amsterdam, which, comparably, has a much lower percentage of people who have used marijuana.

It is a thought-provoking article nevertheless. Andrew Sullivan often addresses the issue of legalizing pot. I think the subject could have its own thread, if people were interested.

Elphaba

These comments really struck me. The liberal argument is generally that government does things better than the private sector. And if this isn't your point, then I apologize in advance. However, large corporations have done far more good than evil. And very large governments have generally done far more evil than good. The United States and other capitalistic organizations are the exception, but only because they give the private sector room to grow. Shall I compare the most evil company that ever existed? US Steel perhaps? Maybe Microsoft? Who would you say? And compare that to the most evil governments in the world. Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union? The Roman Empire? North Korea. Yeah, corporations are sooooo evil.

Oh, and the medical luxuries that other countries are enjoying are because the US developed them. Change our system to theirs, and we will be as stagnant in innovation as they are. Amsterdam has done very little in the past 100 years to better the life of man. They are content at being content.

By the way, am I the only one here who has actually been to Amsterdam?

[boyando]

I am reminded of what Gorge Carlin use to say about Marijuana. You have to watch yourself, when your in California. If you get caught with pot, they will give you a ticket.

Heck with Amsterdam, Nevada has legalized prostitution and California has got almost legal pot. And lets face it, there is no crime in those states.

[bytebear]

My nephew just got arrested for stealing GPS systems from cars and trying to sell them on craigslist. He was stealing them to get extra money because his parents cut off his allowance when they found out he was only using the money to buy pot. He is 17, and may be tried as an adult. I used to think marijuana was no big deal until I realized this smart, good student, nice kid felt it so important to steal, and to jeopardize his entire future, risk jail time, all just to get high.