33 states report on stimulus job creation.

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

According to both articles, part of the problem is recipients don’t know how to determine if a job counts as “saved,” or not. I have no idea what instructions the government provided, but perhaps a more precise directive needs to be disseminated.

It is absolutely ridiculous to count tenured professors. It is also offensive because it appears, at least to me, that the university’s administration purposely chose to included tenured profs to make the numbers look better than they were. Did they think we’re so stupid we wouldn’t notice?

I think it is important to recognize there were still thousands of jobs that can legitimately be counted as saved by the stimulus.

Elphaba

You can recognize it all you want Elph... That being said, it is pure political genius....."created or saved". My hat is off to him for that one. That phrase will likely be used for generations to come to combat lower than expected job growth.

President Obama is in a tough position. Unemployment will likely never return to levels seen under Clinton and Bush. The economy has changed for a very long time. I predict that we will still be above 8% in 2012 and probably beyond.

[Moksha]

When we have a depression there is mass unemployment. Big spending has enabled the market to stay afloat and with it jobs are not lost as fast. Is spending the answer? Who knows. I certainly see the benefit of having a balanced budget, but the consequences of that are very unappealing as well.

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by Moksha

When we have a depression there is mass unemployment. Big spending has enabled the market to stay afloat and with it jobs are not lost as fast. Is spending the answer? Who knows. I certainly see the benefit of having a balanced budget, but the consequences of that are very unappealing as well.

No...spending is not the answer. The GDP clicked up this quarter.....3.5%, BUT, that number is inflated. Inflated by cash for clunkers and the first time buyer program. Next quarter will likely be a better gauge of where we are at economically.

Spending cannot be sustained....it is simply debt and will have to be paid back. How? Don't know how......and we will definitely be in trouble IF or perhaps WHEN this health care fiasco occurs. Reduce taxes....personal and corporate. Let the normal cycle of the economy occur and allow people to keep MORE of there income. Taxes are going up in 2010. Everyone will have a tax increase from the bottom to the top. The lowest rate of 10% goes up to 15%.

Please note: I am not opposed to social programs or even a government alternative for health care. Social programs that REALLY lift and help on a grand scale, rather than programs that barely sustain and keep people in bad situations. I am opposed to waste and our government is overflowing with waste. Reduce the size and scope of government and eliminate waste, lower taxes and ALL will benefit.

[jadams_4040]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

The phrase "created or saved" is pure political genius by Obama and pure snake oil.

Tell that to the people whom still have there jobs and homes due to the stimulas. i personaly know sevearl families in our state {nevada} has benifited tremendously from the stimulas allreadly; good hard working, patriotic honest upstanding american citizens whose jobs were on the block because of bushies recession. they are now working, paying there bills , holding heads up and looking to the future.

[Just_A_Guy]

Lest anyone conclude the White House knows what it's doing:

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by jadams_4040

Tell that to the people whom still have there jobs and homes due to the stimulas. i personaly know sevearl families in our state {nevada} has benifited tremendously from the stimulas allreadly; good hard working, patriotic honest upstanding american citizens whose jobs were on the block because of bushies recession. they are now working, paying there bills , holding heads up and looking to the future.

Bravo!! Now back to my comment......it is snake oil. You can't REALLY measure "saved" jobs. It is political posturing and it's laughable. Genius...but laughable and pathetic. Oh and Bush didn't create the financial crisis.....neither did Obama. The wheels of the disaster were turning well before Bush was President and while Obama cannot and should not be blamed for it, he has yet to do anything but add to the woes. I wish it were not so and I promise I would gladly praise him if he were to do something that is responsible. Jadams, I am just being honest. Try and be objective and understand the very real danger we face as Obama and the idiots in Congress continue to print money and run up a debt that cannot be sustained.

Surely you don't operate your own house hold budget that way? Look at California. As more money is printed the value of the dollar falls. At some point in time we will not be able to pay the interest on the debt owed to nations like China that hold our debt and then kaboom!! Sigh....I am sure you don't care or don't understand. Obama thanks you and people like you for there vote.

[Palerider]

Originally Posted by jadams_4040

Tell that to the people whom still have there jobs and homes due to the stimulas. i personaly know sevearl families in our state {nevada} has benifited tremendously from the stimulas allreadly; good hard working, patriotic honest upstanding american citizens whose jobs were on the block because of bushies recession. they are now working, paying there bills , holding heads up and looking to the future.

Tell that to the State Employees that are without jobs because of states making budget cuts after your stimulus money...and lets not forget your obama said something like, if we don't pass this stimulus, unemployment will go to 9%....it passed and unemployment went higher.
Lets just keep passing kool aid around....

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

That being said, it is pure political genius....."created or saved".

Nice quote from the Wall Street Journal.

My hat is off to him for that one. That phrase will likely be used for generations to come to combat lower than expected job growth.

Actually it was used by a generation prior.

March 24, 2005: Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns today announced the selection of 26 loan and grant recipients in 14 states that will receive $9.2 million in rural business development funds.
. . . .
"These funds are part of the Bush Administration's ongoing efforts to spur economic development in rural areas and will help save or create more than 1,800 jobs.”

May 7, 2007: Agriculture Under Secretary Thomas C. Dorr today announced the award of $19.75 million to create or retain jobs at rural businesses.

"These funds will help support local economic development agencies, finance infrastructure improvements, establish low-interest revolving loan funds, and help jurisdictions implement regional business and community development plans," Dorr said. "The funding announced today is expected to save or create more than 2,300 jobs in 20 states."

Apparently Bush had no problem with his Department of Agriculture using the phrase. Neither did the Wall Street Journal. Especially this one:

June 24, 2004, Agriculture Secretary Ann M. Veneman: Our Rural Development programs also help communities with infrastructure such as electricity, water and telecommunications and with economic development assistance. We have estimated that our rural development programs have saved or created more than 500,000 jobs just since the Bush Administration took office in January of 2001.

Elphaba

[changed]

hmmm 787 billion divided by 388,000 jobs = $202,8350.52 per job.
787 billion divided by 1.1 mil jobs = $71,545.5 per job.
Is that cost effective / worth it? I don't think so.

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

Social programs that REALLY lift and help on a grand scale, rather than programs that barely sustain and keep people in bad situations.

What do you mean by "keep people in bad situations"?

If you're talking about welfare, I have explained before that a person can only receive Tempoary Assitance of Needy Families (TANF) for a maximum of two years, or five years under special circumstances, during which they must be either looking for work, or in a training program. After that, they will not receive any more assistance, so they are not kept in bad situations.

People can no longer stay on welfare indefinitely. Additionally, the "welfare queen" slur uttered by Reagan is a myth, and most people, the majority of them women, only stayed on welfare long enough to get on their feet.

If you were talking about something else, would you let me know?

Elphaba