Planned Parenthood Leader Resigns After Watching Abortion Ultrasound (Video)

[changed]

Originally Posted by Just_A_Guy

The former; I'm going to be a daddy (again) next July. The pic is of my first daughter when she was about a month along, back in 2006.

Congrats!!!!!!

you know, it's after you have your first kid that stuff like this starts to really really get under your skin.

Congrats again!!!!

[MarginOfError]

Originally Posted by changed

I think unprotected sex between unwed individuals should be a crime. I think I'll write a letter to my state rep

And I thought you were a small government person. The things we choose to care about...

Well, let's educate them then! Show them the vids - in HS - or earlier as part of their sex-ed class!

I think you're operating on a faulted idea of what education is. Guilt tripping people into doing what you believe is right is not education--it's manipulation. The numbers are pretty clear that people who finish high school and pursue further education are less likely to have an unwanted pregnancy than those who never finish high school. To, really, your idea of showing them the video in high school isn't very good anyway because we can't even be sure that the people that need your manipulation--er, education--the most are going to see it.

PS. - they would have access to birth control if Planned Parenthood was doing what they claim.

No dispute from me.

I think they are careless. I mean if you are old enough to have sex, you know. The "poor, (I don't want to make it a race issue) uneducated" know the results of careless sex better than anyone I would imagine, wouldn't you? Seeings how many of them come from homes in which they have to deal with the results of careless sex each day of their life.

I'd think you'd be amazed at the misconceptions about sex that still abound among the poor and uneducated. But let's not try to understand them. let's just label and belittle them, then enact laws that will only entrench the negative cycle in which they have been brought up. That seems like it'd be a lot more productive.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by MarginOfError

Guilt tripping people into doing what you believe is right is not education--it's manipulation.

Funny, I thought of it as brainwashing. No matter. It's still not education.

[changed]

Originally Posted by MarginOfError

I'd think you'd be amazed at the misconceptions about sex that still abound among the poor and uneducated. But let's not try to understand them. let's just label and belittle them, then enact laws that will only entrench the negative cycle in which they have been brought up. That seems like it'd be a lot more productive.

Yes let’s be enablers for them to remain in their fallen and decrepit state by offering sympathy rather than correction. Let’s remove all personal accountability from everyone, leave them where they are, because they are “too stupid” and “just can’t help themselves”.

Treat them like stupid failures who cannot help themselves, and you enable them to be just that.

Treat them like intelligent people who can figure out a few basic obvious things – see them and treat them as people who can help themselves, who can take responsibility, and you can end the downward cycle.

Looking down on people, seeing them as stupid idiots who can’t help themselves makes you out to be the prideful think you are smarter and better than them idiot.

I did not belittle them. I'm not the one who thinks they are stupid.

[sixpacktr]

Huh...so, now showing people the un-PC version of what the consequences to their actions are is 'guilt-tripping', 'manipulation', 'brainwashing'.

Funny, I thought it was showing the people that their actions have consequences. Too many of the under 30 crowd today don't have a clue that they have an impact on anything, except as they've been 'educated' by uncle Algore, the kiddy's pal, on why their presence on the planet is killing it.

But, that's okay, right? Because THAT is truth. This other stuff is just the rantings of the 'vast right wing, fascist conspiracy crowd' that is trying to run their lives...

Which is really showing love to them? Treating them as too stupid to get it, and that it will all be alright, or teaching them that they need to take responsibility for their actions?

Wait, don't answer that. I see your answer every night on TV...

[anatess]

I saw an ultrasound of an abortion when I was about 12. Back in the 80's. That is one of the main reasons I believe life begins at conception. I subscribe to the Catholic stance on abortion. That's why, even if I'm liberal on social issues, I am pro-life. Because I don't find any difference between putting a pillow over your son's face and sucking out a fetus. Ever since I converted to LDS, I have learned the spirit-entering-the-body stance. But, as of now, there isn't enough information for me to change my Catholic-leaning pro-life stance. That video had a great impact on me. And no, it is not manipulation. It is EDUCATION. Just like my kid watching Animal Planet to educate himself on the behaviors of meerkats.

[changed]

Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, 1982, p. 188

“Abortion must be considered one of the most revolting and sinful practices in this day...”

“We oppose and abhor the damnable practice of wholesale abortion and every other unholy and impure act which strikes at the very foundation of the home and family, our most basic institutions.”

- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pp. 539

“... in all seriousness… you who submit yourselves to an abortion or to an operation that precludes you from safely having additional healthy children are jeopardizing your exaltation and your future membership in the kingdom of God.”

- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 1988, p. 541

“According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention there were more than 1,200,000 abortions performed in 1995 in the United States alone. What has happened to our regard for human life? How can women, and men, deny the great and precious gift of life, which is divine in its origin and nature? Abortion is an ugly thing, a debasing thing, a thing which inevitably brings remorse and sorrow and regret.”

- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, October 1998

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by changed

Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, 1982, p. 188

“Abortion must be considered one of the most revolting and sinful practices in this day...”

“We oppose and abhor the damnable practice of wholesale abortion and every other unholy and impure act which strikes at the very foundation of the home and family, our most basic institutions.”

- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pp. 539

“... in all seriousness… you who submit yourselves to an abortion or to an operation that precludes you from safely having additional healthy children are jeopardizing your exaltation and your future membership in the kingdom of God.”

- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 1988, p. 541

“According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention there were more than 1,200,000 abortions performed in 1995 in the United States alone. What has happened to our regard for human life? How can women, and men, deny the great and precious gift of life, which is divine in its origin and nature? Abortion is an ugly thing, a debasing thing, a thing which inevitably brings remorse and sorrow and regret.”

- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, October 1998

Who did you post that for?

I haven't seen one person on this thread say abortion is a good thing. Your quotes are stating the obvious, given we all agree that having an abortion is a tragedy. It's true even when the situation calls for it.

Elphaba

[MarginOfError]

Originally Posted by changed

Yes let’s be enablers for them to remain in their fallen and decrepit state by offering sympathy rather than correction. Let’s remove all personal accountability from everyone, leave them where they are, because they are “too stupid” and “just can’t help themselves”.

Treat them like stupid failures who cannot help themselves, and you enable them to be just that.

Treat them like intelligent people who can figure out a few basic obvious things – see them and treat them as people who can help themselves, who can take responsibility, and you can end the downward cycle.

Looking down on people, seeing them as stupid idiots who can’t help themselves makes you out to be the prideful think you are smarter and better than them idiot.

I did not belittle them. I'm not the one who thinks they are stupid.

Woah...don't trap me up in the clever little misrepresentation of everything I said. I never said anything about these people being stupid or not able to help themselves. Those are your additions. Perhaps you could try sticking to what it is I've said and not what it would be convenient for you if I were to say.

What I am saying is that if you improve education, opportunity, and access to health care, you will see people start to break the cycle precisely because they aren't stupid. What's more, the solution of simply banning abortion only entrenches the same cycles that these people are living in for them and their posterity.

There are about 1.2 million abortions performed in a typical year (ref). 828,000 of those abortions are performed for black and hispanic women (who are disproportionately poor in our country). About 22% of blacks and hispanics live below the poverty line (ref). So we can safely assume that 182,160 abortions are performed for women living below the poverty line (in fact, it's probably higher given that women in these ethnicities are more likely to be single, which increases their likelihood for poverty, especially if they are single mothers). There are about 127,000 children adopted each year in the US (ref).

Now, take all that in consideration, and let's simply ban abortion. We've got over 182,000 new unwanted children each year. What do you do with those children? You can put them up for adoption. But now you've increased to pool of children waiting for adoption by 140%. There aren't homes for that many children to be adopted into. And what's more, these new potential adoptees are black and hispanic, and are less likely to be adopted than white children. This idea won't be very successful.

What if we put them into foster care? Well, now we face the same problems; we've flooded the system with kids and the system can no longer support it. What's more, kids in this system are less likely to succeed in school, less likely to pursue higher education, more likely to live in poverty--all indicators that lead toward premature sexual activity and unwanted pregnancy. You've exacerbated a negative cycle.

The last option is for the mother to keep the child. Yet, three fourths of women who have abortions cite inability to support it financially as a reason. So the kids that you've not aborted are now growing up in poverty, have less education, less access to income, and are at higher risk for unwanted pregnancy, which continues to feed the cycle.

In addition to all of this, children who live in poverty are disproportionately prone to drug use and crime. Pick up the book Freakonomics sometime and read the chapter on abortion.

The point being, as awful, sick, and wrong as abortion is, simply outlawing it doesn't improve society at all.

Instead, let's improve education, opportunity, and access to health care. Let's teach people to be better parents. Let's attack all the factors that are associated with unwanted pregnancy and abortion. And above all, let's teach people correct gospel principles and persuade them not to have abortions through means that uplift and inspire. The principle we should be employing is that stated by Boyd K. Packer:

"The study of the doctrines of the gospel will improve behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve behavior."

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Originally Posted by lost87

I completely agree...its a typical conservative ploy...they run out of intelligent and logical things to argue about and then try to create entire arguments based on an individual's emotional response....sigh.

Then how is this for a logical and coherent objective reasoning against abortion

At 6.5 weeks, my wife and I heard the heartbeat of our baby.

Abortion does not end the life of a single baby, but ends the potential lives that that child could potentially have had if that baby were to allow life. In this, the Mother and Planned Parenthood, and those who are doctors that perform abortion are not merely taking a single life, but destroying generations of lives.

Furthermore, if the child is male, the mother and abortion practitioners are destroying the potentiality of that child to carry on the family name of the child's father.

Not one single Pro-Choice proponent is able to argue against these logical and objective realities as to why Abortion is not merely murder, but genocide.