March 2, 2012 - Obedience

[Tyler90AZ]

Originally Posted by pam

A critic recently wrote that obedience to commandments such as tithing is mandatory. In order to claim certain blessings, obedience is certainly obligatory, but compliance is never mandatory—that is, forced. Nothing is mandatory in the church. Free agency is a cardinal principle of obedience. Obedience comes from love of God and a commitment to his work. The only punishment for serious transgression or apostasy is the removal of members from the society and fellowship of the Church.

James E. Faust

Clever, he did not say all critics write, he said a critic recently wrote. That means he could be talking about any critic. It was clearly a critic that accused The Church of having mandatory tithing, he said, "never mandatory-that is,forced." He even lays out the definition of mandatory the critic used, which is by force. Therefore, you are using a semantic argument, because he laid out what the critic meant.

[Just_A_Guy]

This quote, in isolation, does seem like a semantical argument--and a weak one, at that. The misimpression grows stronger if one quits reading after the first couple of lines (as, quite frankly, I did the first time through).

But here's the difference between the oft-maligned "True Believing Mormon" (TBM) and self-proclaimed "heterodox" Mormons. The heterodox Mormon will tend to lash out at the leadership. Obviously Faust was defensively responding to one particular critic. Of course Faust was deploying a rhetorical a bait-and-switch. He's one of The Patriarchy™--how could he do otherwise?

The TBM thinks "huh, that's odd. I wonder if that's what he really meant?" Rather than immediately assume the worst, the TBM Googles the quote and finds that it comes from a 1985 Ensign article called "The Abundant Life". The TBM--even a lazy one like me--skims the article, returns to the quote, and then understands the quote's main point: that when you're truly converted you do stuff because you want to, not because you're "supposed" to.

The TBM may find a turn of phrase within one specific sentence of the quote mildly regrettable, but on the whole walks away edified.

The heterodox Mormon dubs the whole thing "absolute rubbish", picks a fight with a couple of other TBMs who disagree with his assessment, and then (one presumes) congratulates himself on his thoughtful and nuanced approach to religion.

[pam]

JAG you should be an attorney.

[clevermoniker]

Some of us didn't need Google in order to understand the quote's main point. Some of us weren't edified, because this main point is nothing new or groundbreaking. One of us stated an opinion, and was attacked for it. One of us never felt the need to attack the faith of the other people in this thread, because... well, what kind of person would do that?

[estradling75]

The daily quote section is not a place for debating.

To keep this thread from continuing its spiral in the wrong direction I am closing this thread