LDS Mormon Forums http://www.lds.net/forums/ This is a discussion forum. en Sat, 21 Nov 2009 06:23:17 GMT vBulletin 10 http://www.lds.net/forums/images/misc/rss.jpg LDS Mormon Forums http://www.lds.net/forums/ How to feel the Spirit http://www.lds.net/forums/advice-board/27893-how-feel-spirit.html Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:44:25 GMT I've only felt the Spirit very strongly once in my life. Other times I felt the reverence but not the same strong spirit as I did that one time. I know how to ask Heavenly Father for guidance - by studying out the plan in our mind and coming to him with it and either feeling the Spirit or a stupor of thought. I've done this but I do not receive either answer. I have faith I know anything is possible through the Lord and am so thankful for many things he has blessed me with but I really need guidance at this point in my life. I need spiritual guidance. Is there something I am doing wrong? I really want to feel the Spirit so strong like I did that one time. Advice?

Chelsea ]]> Advice Board ccxc910 http://www.lds.net/forums/advice-board/27893-how-feel-spirit.html <![CDATA[Religion values and morals - agency & choice]]> http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27892-religion-values-morals-agency-choice.html Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:35:44 GMT One of my favorite books in my library was published in 1966. I cannot find this book in print any more but it purport what is called the theory of values (morals or religion) and teaching children through methods of value, moral and religious clarification rather than by attempting to force incorporation of values, morals and religion as a method of teaching. The book begins by teaching a parent to fist clarify their own values. Since the book is out of print I will post the seven steps to clarifying your own moral religious values. So what is a moral religious value? 1. *Choosing freely.* If something is in fact to guide one’s life whether or not authority is watching, it must be a result of free choice. If there is coercion, the result is not likely to stay with one for long, especially when out of the range of the source of that coercion. Values must be freely selected if they are to be really valued by the individual. 2. *Choosing from among alternatives.* This definition of values is considered with things that are chosen by the individual and, obviously, there can be no choice if there are no alternatives from which to choose. It makes no sense, for example, to say that one values eating. One really has no choice in the matter. What one may value is certain types of food or certain forms of eating, but not eating itself. We must all obtain nourishment to exist; there is no room for decision. Only when a choice is possible, when there is more than one alternative from which to choose, do we say a value can result. 3. *Choosing after thoughtful consideration of the consequences of each alternative.* Impulsive or thoughtless choices do not lead to values as we define them. For something intelligently and meaningfully to guide one’s life, it must emerge from a weighing and an understanding. Only when the consequences of each of the alternatives are clearly understood can one make intelligent choices. There is an important cognitive factor here. A value can emerge only with thoughtful consideration of the range of the alternatives and consequences in a choice. 4. *Prizing and cherishing. When we value something, it has a positive tone*. We prize it, cherish it, esteem it, respect it, hold it dear. We are happy with our values. A choice, even when we have made it freely and thoughtfully, may be a choice we are not happy to make. We may choose to fight in a war, but be sorry circumstances make that choice reasonable. In our definition, values flow from choices that we are glad to make. We prize and cherish the guides to life that we call values. 5. *Affirming.* When we have chosen something freely, after consideration of the alternatives, and when we are proud of our choice, glad to be associated with it, we are likely to affirm that choice when asked about it. We are willing to publicly affirm our values. We may even be willing to champion them. If we are ashamed of a choice, if we would not make our position known when appropriately asked, we would not be dealing with values but something else. 6. *Acting upon choices.* Where we have a value, it shows up in aspects of our living. We may do some reading about things we value. We are likely to form friendships or to be in organizations in what that nourish our values. We may spend money on a choice we value. We budget time or energy for our values. In short, for a value to be present, life itself must be affected. Nothing can be a value that does not, in fact, give direction to actual living. The person who talks about something but never does anything about it is dealing with something other than a value. 7. *Repeating.* Where something reaches the stage of a value, it is very likely to reappear on a number of occasions in the life of the person who holds it. It shows up in several different situations, at several different times. We would not think of something that appeared once in a life and never again as a value. Values tend to have a persistency, tend to make a pattern in a life. The Traveler One of my favorite books in my library was published in 1966. I cannot find this book in print any more but it purport what is called the theory of values (morals or religion) and teaching children through methods of value, moral and religious clarification rather than by attempting to force incorporation of values, morals and religion as a method of teaching. The book begins by teaching a parent to fist clarify their own values. Since the book is out of print I will post the seven steps to clarifying your own moral religious values. So what is a moral religious value?

1. Choosing freely. If something is in fact to guide one’s life whether or not authority is watching, it must be a result of free choice. If there is coercion, the result is not likely to stay with one for long, especially when out of the range of the source of that coercion. Values must be freely selected if they are to be really valued by the individual.

2. Choosing from among alternatives. This definition of values is considered with things that are chosen by the individual and, obviously, there can be no choice if there are no alternatives from which to choose. It makes no sense, for example, to say that one values eating. One really has no choice in the matter. What one may value is certain types of food or certain forms of eating, but not eating itself. We must all obtain nourishment to exist; there is no room for decision. Only when a choice is possible, when there is more than one alternative from which to choose, do we say a value can result.

3. Choosing after thoughtful consideration of the consequences of each alternative. Impulsive or thoughtless choices do not lead to values as we define them. For something intelligently and meaningfully to guide one’s life, it must emerge from a weighing and an understanding. Only when the consequences of each of the alternatives are clearly understood can one make intelligent choices. There is an important cognitive factor here. A value can emerge only with thoughtful consideration of the range of the alternatives and consequences in a choice.

4. Prizing and cherishing. When we value something, it has a positive tone. We prize it, cherish it, esteem it, respect it, hold it dear. We are happy with our values. A choice, even when we have made it freely and thoughtfully, may be a choice we are not happy to make. We may choose to fight in a war, but be sorry circumstances make that choice reasonable. In our definition, values flow from choices that we are glad to make. We prize and cherish the guides to life that we call values.

5. Affirming. When we have chosen something freely, after consideration of the alternatives, and when we are proud of our choice, glad to be associated with it, we are likely to affirm that choice when asked about it. We are willing to publicly affirm our values. We may even be willing to champion them. If we are ashamed of a choice, if we would not make our position known when appropriately asked, we would not be dealing with values but something else.

6. Acting upon choices. Where we have a value, it shows up in aspects of our living. We may do some reading about things we value. We are likely to form friendships or to be in organizations in what that nourish our values. We may spend money on a choice we value. We budget time or energy for our values. In short, for a value to be present, life itself must be affected. Nothing can be a value that does not, in fact, give direction to actual living. The person who talks about something but never does anything about it is dealing with something other than a value.

7. Repeating. Where something reaches the stage of a value, it is very likely to reappear on a number of occasions in the life of the person who holds it. It shows up in several different situations, at several different times. We would not think of something that appeared once in a life and never again as a value. Values tend to have a persistency, tend to make a pattern in a life.

The Traveler ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion Traveler http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27892-religion-values-morals-agency-choice.html A little Jewish commentary: Please tell me what you think. http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27891-little-jewish-commentary-please-tell-me-what-you-think.html Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:52:55 GMT Hi forum,
This is something Vanhin had asked me to do a while ago in the last forum. As I am beginning to read the BoM at last, I am also taking notes for myself. I then decided to share with you some Jewish comments on the narrative. Please tell me what you think. :)

1 I, NEPHI, having been born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught somewhat in all the learning of my father; and having seen many afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the Lord in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God, therefore I make a record of my proceedings in my days.

Name etymology: Nefi - possible from the Hebrew נפל (Nefil) which means "tall one".
Nephi the scribe: In ancient Israel a scribe was an office of high prestige. Being a scribe meant that one was well instructed in the Torah-Law of Israel. Being a scribe, Nephi was certainly a prestigious member of his society. In the Jerusalem Targum, Moses and Aaron are called the scribes of Israel. Judaism mantains that Moses began a school of prominently faithful israelites who would have the mission of transmitting the teachings of the law. Nephi would have been a member of such ancient scribal school.
Mysteries of G-d: There is a word-play between the word ספר (sofer - scribe) and the ספירות (sefirot) which account in Judaism for the mysterious nature of G-d. Nephi was therefore very knowledgeable in the higher truths of Judaism.

2 Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians.

Part of the role of a scribe was also to translate the Torah-law into other languages so that the laymen in exile would understand it. The greatest known literature in Judaism are the Targums in Aramaic and the Samaritan Targum in Arabic. This role of scribe seems to be fulfilled when Nephi writes in the Egyptian language.

3 And I know that the record which I make is true; and I make it with mine own hand; and I make it according to my knowledge.

In Judaism, hands were used in connection to oaths. See for example. Gen. 24:2 By emphasizing that the writing is of his own hand Nephi is taking an oath concerning its truthfulness.

4 For it came to pass in the commencement of the afirst year of the reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah, (my father, Lehi, having dwelt at Jerusalem in all his days); and in that same year there came many prophets, prophesying unto the people that they must repent, or the great city Jerusalem must be destroyed.

Repent: The word in Hebrew for this is the word שוב (shuv) which quite literally means to return. Nephi's warnings were that the people had strayed from the Torah-Law of G-d. Repenting in Judaism is more than a feeling. It is seeking the original way. Two schools of thought within Judaism defined such repentance: Some say repentance is to seek the state of the Sinai. Others define it as seeking the state of our primary existence as it was in the Garden of Eden.

5 Wherefore it came to pass that my father, Lehi, as he went forth prayed unto the Lord, yea, even with all his heart, in behalf of his people.


Name etymology: Lehi (לחי) means "jaw".
Prayed with all his heart: The heart in Jewish culture meant the center of one's spirituality, whether good or bad. The Jewish Midrash in Bereshit Rabbah 67 says:
"The wicked are in the power of their heart, but the righteous have their heart in their power."
The meaning idea of Lehi praying with all his heart meant that no evil was to be found in his heart for he had overcome it.

6 And it came to pass as he prayed unto the Lord, there came a pillar of fire and dwelt upon a rock before him; and he saw and heard much; and because of the things which he saw and heard he did quake and tremble exceedingly.

In ancient Jewish tradition the pillar of fire symbolizes the power of G-d's word to transform. It is said that Onkelos converted many into Judaism by narrating how G-d is the pillar of fire before Israel.

7 And it came to pass that he returned to his own house at Jerusalem; and he cast himself upon his bed, being overcome with the Spirit and the things which he had seen.
8 And being thus overcome with the Spirit, he was carried away in a vision, even that he saw the heavens open, and he thought he saw God sitting upon his throne, surrounded with numberless concourses of angels in the attitude of singing and praising their God.
9 And it came to pass that he saw One descending out of the midst of heaven, and he beheld that his luster was above that of the sun at noon-day.

From Nephi's description of the angels seen by Lehi we can be sure that Lehi saw cherubim (כרובים) – which in Hebrew means "the near ones".
In the ancient wisdom of Kabalah (Zohar Terumah 2:176a), the cherubim represented the closeness between G-d and Israel. When Israel was in connection with G-d the cherubim turned unto G-d for praise. When Israel strayed away the cherubim would rebuke the Jewish people. It comes as no surprise that it is the cherubim who send the message to Lehi.

10 And he also saw twelve others following him, and their brightness did exceed that of the stars in the firmament.

Jewish tradition mantains that the stars are governed by the angels of heaven. The 12 cherubim mentioned by Lehi are also cited in the Book of Enoch:

"Its ceiling was like the path of stars and lightning, and between them were 12 fiery
cherubim, and their skies were as waters."

Like what is inferred from Enoch, Lehi's vision shows that such angels ruled above the stars of heaven. This is particularly revelant as Babylonian culture of Lehi's time would see the stars as governing the fate of mankind. In Lehi's vision G-d shows him how he is above and in control of the fate of Jerusalem.

11 And they came down and went forth upon the face of the earth; and the first came and stood before my father, and gave unto him a book, and bade him that he should read.

Another possible word-play between ספיר (sapir - brightness) and ספר (sefer - book). In Judaism, it is said that the heavens contain the records of what will become of the world. Therefore this again indicates a revelation of the fate of Jerusalem.

12 And it came to pass that as he read, he was filled with the Spirit of the Lord.
Usually the term in Hebrew for filled in this case is מלא (maleh) which means not only to fill, but also to confirm.

There is a fascinating word-play here with מלא (fill) and מלאך (malach - angel). The only difference between the two words is the letter כ in its final form. This is also the first letter of the word cherub as well as the word star (כוכב - cochav). It seems therefore that the spirit-filling of Lehi comes as a second witness to the message of the angels, as demanded by Torah-Law which requires two witnesses to establish truth.

13 And he read, saying: Wo, wo, unto Jerusalem, for I have seen thine abominations! Yea, and many things did my father read concerning Jerusalem—that it should be destroyed, and the inhabitants thereof; many should perish by the sword, and many should be carried away captive into Babylon.
14 And it came to pass that when my father had read and seen many great and marvelous things, he did exclaim many things unto the Lord; such as: Great and marvelous are thy works, O Lord God Almighty! Thy throne is high in the heavens, and thy power, and goodness, and mercy are over all the inhabitants of the earth; and, because thou art merciful, thou wilt not suffer those who come unto thee that they shall perish!

It may sound odd to the reader that Lehi rejoiced over such news. However in Judaism it's a rather common attitude. Ancient kabalah believes that when something evil befalls Israel it means that it's in fact such a highly elevated goodness that this world cannot comprehend it. This is why the prophets often rejoiced over that which would ultimately save Israel even if it meant suffering for a while.

15 And after this manner was the language of my father in the praising of his God; for his soul did rejoice, and his whole heart was filled, because of the things which he had seen, yea, which the Lord had shown unto him.
16 And now I, Nephi, do not make a full account of the things which my father hath written, for he hath written many things which he saw in visions and in dreams; and he also hath written many things which he prophesied and spake unto his children, of which I shall not make a full account.

The Talmud in tractate Avodah Zarah states that dreams are 1/60th of a prophecy. Rambam (Moses Ben Maimon) in Moreh Nevuchim states that in order to achieve the level of the prophets one must at least speak to an angel in a dream. The highest level one can achieve within prophecy without actual involvement in the prophetic events is to rebuke the people in the name of G-d. This shows how Lehi was a prominent prophet in his time.

17 But I shall make an account of my proceedings in my days. Behold, I make an aabridgment of the record of my father, upon plates which I have made with mine own hands; wherefore, after I have abridged the record of my dfather then will I make an account of mine own life.

Given that a scroll can wear out, in Judaism plates are considered to be a means in which one would only record the most sacred or precious information. To this very day Jewish prayer books are often covered by engraved plates for that very reason. An important example is the Copper Scroll from the Dead Sea Scrolls which contained the location of several treasures from the Temple of Jerusalem.

18 Therefore, I would that ye should know, that after the Lord had shown so many marvelous things unto my father, Lehi, yea, concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, behold he went forth among the people, and began to prophesy and to declare unto them concerning the things which he had both seen and heard.
19 And it came to pass that the Jews did mock him because of the things which he testified of them; for he truly testified of their wickedness and their abominations; and he testified that the things which he saw and heard, and also the things which he read in the book, manifested plainly of the coming of a Messiah, and also the redemption of the world.

There's a clear word-play between גילויה (giluyah - manifestation) and גאולה (geulah - redemption). Thus Nephi seems to indicate that the manifestation of Messiah would mean the redemption of the world.

It may almost go unnoticed to the reader that one of the reasons why the Jewish people of Lehi's time may have become upset is because at the time the idea of a global redemption was not yet unanimous in Judaism. Many thought that only Israel would be redeemd and the other nations would serve them.

20 And when the Jews heard these things they were angry with him; yea, even as with the prophets of old, whom they had cast out, and stoned, and slain; and they also sought his life, that they might take it away. But behold, I, Nephi, will show unto you that the tender mercies of the Lord are over all those whom he hath chosen, because of their faith, to make them mighty even unto the power of deliverance.

There is an ancient Jewish proverb that is likely to have been known by Nephi which says:
"Pray to God for mercy until the last shovelful of earth is cast upon thy grave."
Nephi's words seem to be an answer to such a proverb by turning it around and stating clearly that he would not take his prayers to his grave. ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion thekabalist http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27891-little-jewish-commentary-please-tell-me-what-you-think.html Time for a new book!! http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27889-time-new-book.html Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:26:31 GMT Time for a new book! I just finished Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman and The First Two Thousand Years by Cleon Skousen......now I need a new book. Strongly considering: The Infinite Atonement by Tad Callister or The Continuous Atonement by Brad Wilcox Has anyone read either and do you have any suggestions along these lines? Thanks in advance! Bytor Time for a new book! I just finished Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman and The First Two Thousand Years by Cleon Skousen......now I need a new book.

Strongly considering:

The Infinite Atonement by Tad Callister

or

The Continuous Atonement by Brad Wilcox


Has anyone read either and do you have any suggestions along these lines?

Thanks in advance!

Bytor ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion bytor2112 http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27889-time-new-book.html Church Bulletins http://www.lds.net/forums/mormon-jokes/27888-church-bulletins.html Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:18:37 GMT Church Bulletins :

The Fasting & Prayer Conference includes meals.

The Sermon this morning: ‘Jesus walks on water.’ The Sermon tonight: ‘Searching for Jesus.’

Our youth basketball team is back in action Wednesday at 8 PM in the recreation hall. Come and watch us kill Christ the king.

Ladies, don’t forget the rummage sale. It’s a chance to get rid of those things not worth keeping around the house. Bring your husbands.

The peacemaking meeting scheduled for today has been canceled due to a conflict.

Don’t let worry and frustration kill you off – let the church help.

Miss Charlene Mason sang ‘I will not pass this way again,’ giving abvious pleasure to the congregation.

For those of you who have children and don’t know it, we have a nursery downstairs.

The Rector will preach his farewell message after which the choir will sing: ‘Break forth into Joy.’

Irving Benson and Jessie Carter were married on October24 in the church. So ends a friendship that began in their school days.

A bean supper will be held on Tuesday evening in the church hall. Music will follow.

At the evening service tonight, the sermon topic will be ‘What is Hell?’ Come early and listen to our choir practice.
Please place your donation in the envelope along with the deceased person you want to remembered.

The church will host an evening of fine dining, super entertainment and gracious hostility.

Potluck supper Sunday at 5:00 PM – Prayer and medication to follow.

The ladies of the church have cast off clothing of every kind. They may be seen in the basement on Friday afternoon.

This evening at 7 PM there will be a hymn singing in the park across from the church. Bring a blanket and come prepared to sin.

Ladies- Bible Study will be held Thursday morning at 10 AM. All ladies are invited to lunch in the Fellowship Hall after the B.S. is done.

The pastor would appreciate it if the ladies of the congregation would lend him their electric girdles for the pancake breakfast next Sunday.

Low Self Esteem Support Group will meet Thursday at 7 PM. Please use the back door.

The eighth-graders will be presenting Shakespeare’s Hamlet I nthe Church basement Friday at 7 PM. The congregation is invited to attend this tragedy.

Weight Watchers will meet at 7 PM at the First Presbyterian Church. Please use large double door at the side entrance.

The Associate Minister unveiled the church’s new tithing campaign slogan last Sunday : ‘I upped my pledge – Up Yours’ ]]> Mormon Jokes changed http://www.lds.net/forums/mormon-jokes/27888-church-bulletins.html The Great Divide http://www.lds.net/forums/primary-discussion/27885-great-divide.html Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:51:47 GMT How do you divide your larger Nurseries? By Age or do you divide putting some of every age group in the groups:). How do you divide your larger Nurseries?
By Age or do you divide putting some of every age group in the groups:). ]]> Primary Discussion zippy_do46 http://www.lds.net/forums/primary-discussion/27885-great-divide.html question http://www.lds.net/forums/general-discussion/27884-question.html Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:31:52 GMT Does anyone ever use the chat room anymore? I miss the chat. Does anyone ever use the chat room anymore? I miss the chat. ]]> General Discussion hanne_line http://www.lds.net/forums/general-discussion/27884-question.html How have you managed to keep this board so positive? http://www.lds.net/forums/how-do-i-questions-forum/27883-how-have-you-managed-keep-board-so-positive.html Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:19:32 GMT I just left another forum that I was pretty committed to, for about 4 years. It wasn't an LDS forum, but one related to some of my personal musical interests, as well as current events. Full of professional people, journalists, lawyers, engineers etcetera.

I left because it got abrasive to the point it was disturbing my inner peace. There was excessive moderation on what I thought were minor issues (such as starting a thread that had been discussed over over two years ago), as well as unbridled sarcasm by moderators, and nasty comments from older-time posters that I saw were alienating new people. And if anyone made a constructive critical comment about the musical groups to whom specific forums were dedicated, it led to public crucifixion.

Here, I've read through a ton of posts, and have noticed an absence of such behavior in general -- in fact, it's been very supportive even when there's been comments that aren't exactly along the "party line" when it comes to gospel culture. Not drastic deviances, but comments that show people are struggling with aspects of the gospel and have sincere questions.

Also, I've noticed a complete absence of anti-Mormon, antagonistic comments which seem to pop-up anywhere else in the world, whether physically or on-line, where LDS people come together to strenghten each other in their faith.

Can anyone comment on how this positive culture has been achieved? And has it always been this way?

I'm not sure which section of the forum to post this, so I considered this a HOW TO question, loosely. I'll be interested in the answers, because the feeling I have on this discussion forum is entirely different and positive than the other one I was on. ]]> mormonmusic http://www.lds.net/forums/how-do-i-questions-forum/27883-how-have-you-managed-keep-board-so-positive.html <![CDATA[A real "Inconvenient Truth"]]> http://www.lds.net/forums/current-events/27882-real-inconvenient-truth.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:15:05 GMT Climate Skeptics See 'Smoking Gun' in Researchers' Leaked E-Mails - Biology | Astronomy | Chemistry | Physics - FOXNews.com

I was reading this article today and found it very interesting.

Lets do what we can to be good stewards of the planet but lets not lie to get gain or put ourselves in a better light.

Ben Raines ]]> Current Events BenRaines http://www.lds.net/forums/current-events/27882-real-inconvenient-truth.html 2 Nephi 15:10 http://www.lds.net/forums/2-nephi/27879-2-nephi-15-10-a.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:21:41 GMT Reference Search: 2 Nephi 15:10

10 Yea, ten acres of vineyard shall yield one bath, and the seed of a homer shall yield an ephah.

Quotes for Discussion


10 Acres, 1 Bath, a Homer, an Ephah
The lands of the wealthy will become extremely unproductive. Ten acres represents the amount of land that ten yoke of oxen can plow in a day, or the equivalent of five acres of land by our modern measurement. From this acreage, the yield will be only one bath (four to eight gallons of wine). One homer of seed (about six bushels) will yield only an ephah of produce (four to six gallons of dry measure).
Hoyt WW. Brewster, Jr., Isaiah Plain and Simple [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1995], 47



The land would become unproductive, so that five acres of a vineyard would produce only one bath (eight gallons) of wine, and a homer (six bushels) of seed, would yield only an ephah (four gallons) of grain. Isaiah’s prognosis in these passages accurately describes the pitiful circumstances the remnant of Israel faced after the Babylonian and Assyrian deportations.
Terry B. Ball, Voices of Old Testament Prophets: The 26th Annual Sidney B. Sperry Symposium [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1997], 54
]]> 2 Nephi pam http://www.lds.net/forums/2-nephi/27879-2-nephi-15-10-a.html November 20, 2009 Robert W. Woodruff, a prominent business leader http://www.lds.net/forums/dailywow-quotes/27877-november-20-2009-robert-w-woodruff-prominent-business-leader.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:13:19 GMT “Robert W. Woodruff, a prominent business leader of a former time, toured the United States giving a lecture which he entitled ‘A Capsule Course in Human Relations.’ In his message, he said that the two most important words in the English language are these: ‘Thank you.’” Thomas S. Monson, Ensign, Sep 2005, 2-8 “Robert W. Woodruff, a prominent business leader of a former time, toured the United States giving a lecture which he entitled ‘A Capsule Course in Human Relations.’ In his message, he said that the two most important words in the English language are these: ‘Thank you.’”

Thomas S. Monson, Ensign, Sep 2005, 2-8 ]]> DailyWOW Quotes pam http://www.lds.net/forums/dailywow-quotes/27877-november-20-2009-robert-w-woodruff-prominent-business-leader.html Elizabeth Smart http://www.lds.net/forums/current-events/27876-elizabeth-smart.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:22:11 GMT On Oct. 1, Elizabeth Smart testified against her accused kidnapper, Brian David Mitchell, during a competency hearing, providing several details about her nine months in captivity.

Remaining calm and composed throughout her entire testimony, Smart described Mitchell as "smart," "evil," "manipulative," and "not close to God." Mitchell was not in the courtroom while she testified but watched the proceedings via audio/video feed.

Smart's testimony is critical to the federal case against Mitchell because he has twice been found incompetent for trial in Utah state court. Her testimony will be used during Mitchell's federal competency hearing on Nov. 30. Smart will not be present for that hearing because she will be entering the Missionary Training Center in mid-November to prepare for a mission in Paris, France. (article in LDSLiving).

Just thought I would share this article -- when I read it last night all I could say was, 'WOW, you go girl!':D ]]> Current Events candyprpl http://www.lds.net/forums/current-events/27876-elizabeth-smart.html Pornography to Powerful for Adolescents to Handle on Their Own http://www.lds.net/forums/advice-board/27874-pornography-powerful-adolescents-handle-their-own.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:00:53 GMT The drug of pornography is just too powerful for young adolescents to handle on their own. The fact of the matter is that it is too powerful for any of us to handle on our own. This support must be offered with understanding, love, compassion and patience. If a young person is criticized, condemned or shamed after exposure, it sets up the perfect environment for potential addiction issues because of the way the limbic part of the brain works. Shame will aid an addiction in becoming more entrenched and makes it more challenging to treat. Any acting out behaviors must be treated with the perfect balance of justice and mercy. This is a great challenge for loved ones, ecclesiastical leaders and therapists alike. If the response to a confession is too harsh or judgmental, an adolescent is even less likely to get the help they need. If the response to a confession is too lenient, one may not feel the urgency to change or recognize the seriousness of the problem. Pornography addiction is a very serious problem and needs to be treated as such, but it must be handled with great care and compassion if one is to find the help they need.

In the simplest terms, we have two parts of our brain or “two brains” that work in concert with each other. The higher functioning brain, known as the neocortex or the pre-frontal cortex, the rational, moral and logical part of the brain, sits on the top of the more primitive brain known as the limbic system. The limbic system, or primitive brain, is selfish, primitive, childish, and pleasure-oriented, with no ability to delay gratification. It is very important to understand that there are no morals and values associated with the limbic system or “natural man.” Values do not exist there. This is why the Lord says, “The natural man is an enemy to God” (Mosiah 3:19). This is the instinctive survival part of the brain. ]]> Advice Board InnerGold http://www.lds.net/forums/advice-board/27874-pornography-powerful-adolescents-handle-their-own.html <![CDATA[How to know if it's official LDS doctrine]]> http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27873-how-know-if-its-official-lds-doctrine.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:52:51 GMT I've been watching a great dialogue between Robert Millet (BYU) and Greg Johnson (Baptist reverend and childhood LDS member). One of their topics was how to determine what is LDS doctrine. Johnson said that to evangelicals trying to pin down what's official and what isn't is like trying to nail green jello to a wall. Two gems from the discussion:

Johnson: I want to discuss with my LDS friends what they actually believe, not what someone said in 1830. If my friend doesn't believe a teaching that I bring up, should I not happily move on? After all--we both agree!

Millet: A doctrine can be considered official if any of the following are true:

1. It is clearly in the Sacred Works.
2. It is currently taught and emphasized.
3. It is mentioned in conferences, or other public meetings by national leaders.
4. It is contained in official church teaching manuals. ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion prisonchaplain http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27873-how-know-if-its-official-lds-doctrine.html A Little Knowledge is a Dangerous Thing http://www.lds.net/forums/general-discussion/27872-little-knowledge-dangerous-thing.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:57:20 GMT My interactions with Vort et al concerning the “eternal regress of Gods” in the recent thread “Does G-d Worship” have been something of an education for me. It shows how easy it is to get a misconception (or in the case of “infinite regression” a fringe interpretation) stuck in your head and hold onto it as though it were the generally accepted reality. If it is superficially very close enough to the orthodox version, it can be very difficult to dislodge even when you’ve spoken to people who know the truth. I suppose the lesson is to keep questioning what we think we know – though that is not always easy: It is in the very nature of a misconception that we do not know that we have it.

Misconceptions often arise when we make what seems to be an “obvious inference” in the presence of too little information. The following comes from an evangelical Christian website I saw a few years back, which was arguing that the Harry Potter books are demonically inspired:

Quote:
Another cause for suspicion concerns the naming of Professor Dumbledore’s pet phoenix: Fawkes.

Guy Fawkes (1570-1606) was a Catholic mercenary involved in the infamous “Gunpowder Plot” of November 5 1605. Fawkes attempted to murder the Protestant King James I of England (VI of Scotland) by blowing up the Palace of Westminster during the State Opening of Parliament. Had he succeeded, England may well have reverted to Catholicism and there would have been no Authorised King James version of the Bible.

A connection between Guy Fawkes and Dumbledore’s phoenix may sound far-fetched but when asked, Rowling replied: “So you know about that? I’m surprised! Most Americans have never heard of Guy Fawkes!”
(That is recited from memory, as I don’t think the website exists any more. I think I got the general flow and gist of the argument correct, though the wording was probably a bit different.)

To somebody who knows nothing about the traditions surrounding Guy Fawkes in Britain, this may indeed sound sinister. But as anyone brought up in the UK (or in any other Commonwealth country for that matter) will tell you: It’s claptrap.

Everyone in the UK has heard of Guy Fawkes, though I suspect less than half have more than the haziest idea who he actually was, and fewer still connect him with any religious conflict or to the King James Bible. The reason he is well-known is because of “Guy Fawkes Night” – also known as “Bonfire Night” and sometimes even “Fireworks Night”, celebrated each year on November 5. It is a national holiday – a bit like Valentine’s Day or Halloween.

Traditionally children stuff a set of old clothes with newspaper, straw etc. to create the likeness of a man – the “Guy” – which they carry from door to door asking “Penny for the Guy”. The money they collect is used to buy fireworks, which are fired off on the evening of Nov. 5 when the “Guy” is also burned on a large bonfire. There is also usually party-food in the form of hotdogs, candy apples and large amounts of (usually very badly made) toffee.

The “penny for the guy” thing is rarely done nowadays (particularly as everyone is terrified of paedophiles) but many people still have bonfire parties with fireworks. Many cities also hold large centrally-organised fireworks displays and bonfire parties for the benefit of the local community. At my old college (Loughborough University) the Students Union always organised a fantastic display to help children’s charities.

The overall effect is that “bonfire”, “fireworks” and “Guy Fawkes” have become synonymous to the average British mind. So what better name for a bird that is always bursting into flame?

So a deeper knowledge of the cultural context in which Rowling was writing made a nonsense out of the argument, but I suspect that a lot of non-Brits were fooled. It’s exactly like Alexander Pope once wrote:

Quote:
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."
P.S. This thread probably belongs under "General Discussion" - please could one of the mods move it over? Thanks. ]]> General Discussion Jamie123 http://www.lds.net/forums/general-discussion/27872-little-knowledge-dangerous-thing.html