LDS Mormon Forums - LDS Gospel Discussion

LDS Mormon Forums - LDS Gospel Discussion http://www.lds.net/forums/ Discuss LDS teachings. Ask questions about LDS theology or doctrine. en Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:15:26 GMT vBulletin 10 http://www.lds.net/forums/images/misc/rss.jpg LDS Mormon Forums - LDS Gospel Discussion http://www.lds.net/forums/ <![CDATA[How to know if it's official LDS doctrine]]> http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27873-how-know-if-its-official-lds-doctrine.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:52:51 GMT I've been watching a great dialogue between Robert Millet (BYU) and Greg Johnson (Baptist reverend and childhood LDS member). One of their topics was how to determine what is LDS doctrine. Johnson said that to evangelicals trying to pin down what's official and what isn't is like trying to nail green jello to a wall. Two gems from the discussion:

Johnson: I want to discuss with my LDS friends what they actually believe, not what someone said in 1830. If my friend doesn't believe a teaching that I bring up, should I not happily move on? After all--we both agree!

Millet: A doctrine can be considered official if any of the following are true:

1. It is clearly in the Sacred Works.
2. It is currently taught and emphasized.
3. It is mentioned in conferences, or other public meetings by national leaders.
4. It is contained in official church teaching manuals. ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion prisonchaplain http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27873-how-know-if-its-official-lds-doctrine.html Traffic between Kingdoms http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27843-traffic-between-kingdoms.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:48:19 GMT I have wondered if there are armed angels or possibly unarmed border patrol angels stationed at the border crossings between Kingdoms in the hereafter. Do you think they would give less required shifts to those angels who served on guard duty in the Spirit Prison? Wonder how many PrisonChaplains they have on duty at any one time? Any speculations? :) I have wondered if there are armed angels or possibly unarmed border patrol angels stationed at the border crossings between Kingdoms in the hereafter.

Do you think they would give less required shifts to those angels who served on guard duty in the Spirit Prison? Wonder how many PrisonChaplains they have on duty at any one time?

Any speculations?

:) ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion Moksha http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27843-traffic-between-kingdoms.html Conversion question (and others) http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27842-conversion-question-others.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:23:48 GMT Hi forum,
In the other forum where I met Vanhin and some of the other guys I remember that there were several messages of stories of people who converted out of LDS into some other form of Christianity.

But I never got to see any stories about people who converted from some other form of Christianity into LDS. Would you kindly share your story here? :)

I also have two complementary questions: I read that the LDS consider that at some point Roman Christianity became corrupt. What exactly is considered corrupt about Roman or even Reform Christianity?

Last question: In Judaism we have a lot of problems with Pentecostals and other groups that rely heavily on emotions to gain converts to the point that there are organizations specializing in deprogramming. It's often a hard task to argue for a faith of reason over empty emotionalism. Do you have this problem as well? If so how do you deal with it?

I hope my questions aren't offensive as I have no intention of being so.

b'shalom ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion thekabalist http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27842-conversion-question-others.html What really is worship? http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27830-what-really-worship.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:21:22 GMT When I asked the question “Does G-d worship” – I hoped to stimulate deep spiritual thinking and not “shallow” “empirical” thinking. So now I want to change the focus a little and ask what truly is worship? Not the shallow fluff stuff that we say to perhaps justify ourselves or look good but true and honest actual worship.

Let me give an example: If we say prayer is worship – then it must be that all that pray are worshipping and that there is never a case where a prayer is not worship. So the test is – can someone do such a thing and hold back on true worship.

Another example is given in scripture with the recognition by Jesus of “the Widow’s mite”. With this example Jesus taught that it was possible for the widow do worship with her pittance when the giving of plenty by the wealthy was not worship or a false worship. Thus just giving donations is not worship.

Another example given in scripture is that not all, that call upon the L-rd, do so in worship. Jesus said in essence that not every one that cries L-rd, L-rd is doing so out of worship.

Another example sort of given in scripture – Believing in G-d and believing in the power and might of G-d is not really worship because even the devils believe in G-d and in his power and might – but they do not worship him.

So what really is worship?

The Traveler ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion Traveler http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27830-what-really-worship.html Agreement between LDS and Jewish nation http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27829-agreement-between-lds-jewish-nation.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:06:28 GMT thekabalist said on another thread that he is unaware of any such agreement between LDS and Jews. I'm posting some links to various articles written about this.

In summary, LDS gather names and other vital information about dead ancestors--we call it family history or genealogy. We are encouraged to do this for our own ancestors, but in their zeal some LDS members gather the information of others. Many of the dead ancestors then receive the ordinances of the LDS church posthumously--i.e., a living person is baptized on behalf of a dead person.

In response to finding out many Holocaust victims have received such work for the dead, the Jewish nation expressed offense and outrage over this. As a result, the LDS church leaders have reached an agreement that only converted to LDS Jews may do work for Jewish direct ancestors.

JewishGen

LDS news

Criticism by head of American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors

LDS response to criticism

I couldn't find where I had read about the doctrinal reasons why Jewish people are so opposed to the LDS work for the dead. I'm sure someone smarter than I can find that quickly and post it here. ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion beefche http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27829-agreement-between-lds-jewish-nation.html Judaism and works for the dead http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27827-judaism-works-dead.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:24:27 GMT Hi forum,
As there have been some questions about the works on behalf of the dead I will share the Jewish view with you and perhaps we can learn where we agree and where we are different.

I'll try to keep it simple and as free of jargon as I can as this is a rather complex theme. Judaism believes that the creation existis throughout what we call different "worlds". The word "worlds" here isn't referring to cosmology but rather to what one would think of as parallel dimensions.

In simple terms, we have three spirit worlds and we also have this world where we live in. Now the world where we live in has something that the 3 spirit worlds doesn't: we can perform physical deeds and ordinances. This is why it's often called the "world of action".

What happens is that after you die you are deprived of the possibility of performing physical deeds. That is until the final resurection of course. This is why someone on the physical world must perform stuff on your behalf.

Basically there are two things we do on behalf of the dead: we recite the kaddish which is a sanctification prayer that allows the soul to depart from this earth. Some souls may remain stuck to this world if kaddish isn't said and they aren't pure enough to depart. We say kaddish regularly because it helps the soul achieve higher levels of spirituality.

The second thing we do is this: every commandment that we perform can be done in merit of a deceased person. So many Jews will give donations, pray, have immersions, wear teffilin, or perform other rites on behalf of deceased persons. This will increase the merits the dead have and it will be counted as their actions on the day of judgement.

This is the basic Jewish view. How does it compare to your beliefs? ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion thekabalist http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27827-judaism-works-dead.html sons of perdition http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27816-sons-perdition.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 06:45:40 GMT Yesterday this missionary and I went to my friend's house, she is investigating the church, and they were teaching her about the kingdoms, degrees of glory, and my friend asked the missionary where all the bad people go so he answered to the Telestial Kingdom, and she said if there was another thing like hell, so I though "Oh she's talking about sons of perdition" and so I said it, but the elder gave me a look like saying "shhhhhhhhhh" I tried to explain myself and he gave me another look now almost saying -- shut up like I was messing up this conversation and he seemed uncomfortable and said oh nooo, that's something else. and changed the subject, my friend noticed this and she asked me later why the elder didnt wanna talk about it, I said I dont know.

Are there any doctrinal issues or something that missionaries are not supposed to talk to?

cause I talked to my friend about proxy baptisms because she had a dream of this baptismal font shaped in a pentagon like figure and stuff so I told her, but now Im afraid these are some of the "forbbiden" aspects of the missionaries talks... ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion glow_inthe_dark_girl http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27816-sons-perdition.html A dream I had http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27799-dream-i-had.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:04:08 GMT Hi forum,
This is the message Vanhin was referring to that I posted at the other forum. The dreams below are the reason I went to the LDS section of that forum in the first place. I'm still working on the implications of such dreams so if anyone wants to comment feel free.

Quote:

Hello forum
You don't know me but I was hoping you can help me. I am a Jew not a Christian. I don't see myself as partaking into Christianity though I respect it profoundly. However, last week I had two dreams involving mormons and I would like to try to understand. I think you will understand why I cannot turn to my own kindred for help to understand a dream about a different religion. I will narrate my dreams to you. Can you help me understand them?

Here are the dreams:

### Dream 1 ###

I was on top of what I acknowledged to be a Mormon Temple though in my dream it had nothing to do with the temples I've seen in pictures. It was kind of like a crystal castle or fortress. I was inside some sort of a pool with my father and another man I could not see. This pool looked like a mormon baptismal sink I saw many years ago in a documentary and I assume this memory is where the imagery in my dream came from. It had bulls that decorated it. The water was warm and reached us slightly above the knees.

The pool formed kind of like a waterfall of cascading pools, that went down this crystal temple, forming kind of like a spiral set of stairs. The water would fall into another pool and we would descend. I saw that there were two of such spiral sets.

I then reached the floor level. There were three floors. The floors looked like small streams with water going only to the height of our heels, and the water current seemed to form some sort of natural walkway. All the floors seems to be the same. I saw couples that were moving from one way to another in such a natural walkway. They were always in twos tall blonde and of very handsome appearence. This is all I remember.

### Dream 2 ###

A few nights later I had the following dream. I was going to a mormon church just because I enjoyed fellowship despite being Jewish. The church itself didn't look like a church at all but rather like a synagogue. I was sitting at a balcony, and was surrounded by female friends. The reason I only remember females may be because in synagogues the ladies will sit on the balcony. They were all very young and I remember that they were very nice to me. I saw the service and it was a typical Jewish service with a procession of the scrolls only difference that people were dressed in clothes I couldn't recognize but seem like the clothes of the high priesthood in the Jewish temple of ancient times.

In the dream I returned the following week only to find that one of my friends was getting married. She was so young I thought. This may come from the fact that I know mormons marry young like orthodox Jews also do. She seemed very happy and all the girls were excited. The next week, the same thing with another girl. The third week, once again one girl was getting married. This time, I saw her entering the church dressed in a typical bride gown only she was wearing a beatiful dark-blue vest on top of it. This is what I remember from the second dream.

Both dreams happened to me in a week's time. I don't have any regular contact with Mormons nor do I remember any particular even that may have triggered these dreams. So I was wondering if you could help me to understand them?

If you can't help, that's ok I thank you for taking your time to read this anyway. I hope I have not offended you or your faith in my narrative.

שלום
shalom
peace

]]> LDS Gospel Discussion thekabalist http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27799-dream-i-had.html Liahona (per request of Vanhin) http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27797-liahona-per-request-vanhin.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:09:53 GMT Hi forum,
I was analysing some material that Vanhin sent me to study. To be honest I was browsing fairly quickly in the book of Alma and came across this interesting description of a device used for navigation. Kind of a compass called 'Liahona'.

Now this is very interesting because of the etymology:

ליה – L'Yah - Unto Yah / In the direction of Yah
חנה – Honah - Graciousness

So this would be an instrument believed to "lead towards G-d's graciousness". Pretty interesting how the underlying Hebrew works.

Sadly it doesn't explain much about how the instrument worked though.

b'shalom ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion thekabalist http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27797-liahona-per-request-vanhin.html thekabalist - Marriage/Judaism http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27772-thekabalist-marriage-judaism.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 04:42:52 GMT In the other forum I had asked thekabalist about the marriage ceremony in Judaism. Since we were not able to continue there, I wanted to begin again here. These were the questions and answers we had up until the point we had to cease conversing:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zechariah

I would be very interested in knowing more about the marriage ceremony as practiced in Judaism. I've seen it depicted in movies (though how accurately I don't know) and obviously it carries much in the way of meaning. So could you please explain a little something about how one comes to be engaged (if there are any certain customs) and then (if it is an appropriate topic of discussion) explain what takes place on the day of the marriage and then during the marriage ceremony itself, and what those various elements mean?

Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekabalist

Be glad to answer this one. We can discuss it bit by bit as this is a really extensive topic.

It all starts with what we call in Judaism a soul-root. It essentially means that a male and a female soul have the same roots in heaven. They were once one as Adam and Eve were before they came into the world. In the words of a famous kabbalist:

"The goal of marriage is that the couple manifest in their earthly consciousness the existential oneness they found in their celestial soul-root. This is the essence of true love."

Therefore we believe that Jewish marriage is the process of finding your bashert. If you do and cultivate your union, then you will be one in the olam haba (world to come) just like Adam and Eve were married forever.

Marriage is composed of three moments: shidduch, kiddushin and nissuin. Namely, coming close, bethrotal and full marriage.

A religious Jew doesn't date because we are not allowed to become intimate with another man's wife. So we have the shidduch. A shidduch is kind of like a courtship. Usually you will go to an experienced person in your community and say that you wish to marry and ask for advice on whom. Normally you don't even have to bother much because they tend to introduce you to people naturally. But the part about asking others for advice is very important because the wise can give advice on whether you are compatible. The ladies will do the same thing.

Once a couple agrees to go on a shidduch they go out to talk. They can go out as many times as they wish in order to get to know each other. Then they make up their minds as to whether they want to get married or not. Nobody is forced into marriage. But nobody lays hands on each other until after marriage. They don't even hold hands.

Then we have the kiddushin which means to set apart. It's kind of like a bethrotal. In Judaism if you do the kiddushin you are officially married though you haven't really completed the process yet. But this means that you can only call off a bethrotal by getting a religious divorce.

Finally you have the nissuin which literally means "exaltation". The "exaltation" is the moment that the husband and the wife finally complete their union spiritually speaking.

Now some communities have both the kiddushin and the nissuin on the same day but they are different ceremonies in actuality.

I think this is a good start. I will post more on the ceremony later. If you have any questions feel free to ask!

b'shalom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zechariah

Then this would indicate to me that in Judaism is found the belief that we existed in heaven, in some type of spiritual state, before being born into the physical world we know here. Would that correct?

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekabalist

Correct. We believe that the spirits of all mankind were created before the earth. This is why we have this:

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast the understanding. Who determined the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who stretched the line upon it? Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone thereof, When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38 (portion)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zechariah

And this would indicate to me that the marriage union is meant to last forever, rather than for mortal life only. Would this also be correct?

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekabalist

That would be correct too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RanMan

I am not sure what you mean about another man's wife, could you please explain that?

Also, it sounds as if the "soul root" might indicate a previous acquaintance with one another. But when you discuss having two people introduced to one another it seems to me, not understanding this very well, that might make it harder to meet your "soul root."

Question one: Is it thought that man and wife may have made covenants with one another in the before life?

Question two: How does being introduced, or possibly matched with one another, affect or impact the meeting and joining of soul roots?

We found this very interesting, and are looking forward to learning more. :)

(thank you thekabalist) ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion Zechariah http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27772-thekabalist-marriage-judaism.html Temple recommend http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27770-temple-recommend.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:20:51 GMT Met with the Stake President tonight to renew my recommend., really felt the Spirit...awesome! Now at home, I ponder my life a bit and wonder.....should I really be going to the Lord's House? I can't help but remember past sins...repented of...but the memories linger and always the thought that I can be better and I must be better. Tomorrow.....will I have the resolve to be better? Surely temptation will be lurking....ready to spring out at me and trip me up.

My desire is for everyone to feel what I experienced in the Stake President's office.....if they did, all doubt would vanish. Amazing and wonderful. Anyways....just some ramblings. ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion bytor2112 http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27770-temple-recommend.html Hand gestures http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27755-hand-gestures.html Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:32:09 GMT Hi forum,
Unknown to most Christians is the fact that in Judaism the priestly family is given a combination of hand gestures with which they not only identify each other but also with which they are to bless Israel.

Here's an example of one of such gestures. This is forming the Hebrew letter ש which is the first letter of the word "Shaddai" (Almighty)

[img]
http://1heckofaguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/bircatCohanim.gif[/img]

[img]
http://www.shaareitorah.com/images/cohanim.jpg[/img]

I had a friend who was from the Kehat family - an ark-carrying priest - and his family had some specific hand gestures he would not show me because they were sacred and to be used among themselves.

b'shalom ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion thekabalist http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27755-hand-gestures.html Undergarments http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27751-undergarments.html Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:37:30 GMT Hi forum,
Someone on the other forum asked me about Judaism and undergarments. Do religious Jews wear them? Absolutely! I'm wearing one at this moment. :)

The garment you are referring to is called the Tallit Katan or simply "small prayer shawl". It's a white piece of garment that usually someone wears under their shirt.

[img]
http://www.jewishbazaar.com/images_p...km-4932big.jpg
[/img]

The garment itself has a kabbalistic concept of surrounding us with the clouds of the glory of the Holy One Blessed be He. It also contains the tzitziyot which are 4 sets of braided fringes that have been commanded upon us in Nm 15:38-39.

Now the white threads represent the commandments of G-d and the blue cord represents king Messiah the son of David.

There are also some who wear entirely white garments. This practice comes from the priestly sect of the Temple and is spoken of for example by Flavius Josephus in connection to the exiled priests. They would never wear anything other than such white garments. I think the Samaritan priesthood still does.

If there's anything else I can help with please say so! :)

b'shalom ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion thekabalist http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27751-undergarments.html Hebrew names in the BoM http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27741-hebrew-names-bom.html Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:32:59 GMT Hi forum,
As a Jew I was asked by my friend Vanhin to investigate the possible Hebrew roots of the names in the BoM. We have found some exciting things! If there are any names you would like us to check please send us your requests. Do note that this is highly speculative because some names have been anglicized and it makes it hard to find the roots behind them. Take for example the biblical name "James". How many people know that "James" and "Jacob" are the same name? And how many people know that they come from the Hebrew "Ya'akov"? That being said, our research has showed some promising potential that I'd like to share here.

* (For clarity I will transliterate as capital "H" for the gutural sounds of the letters ח and in some cases כ or its ending form ך though in Jewish literature it is common to find them transliterated as "ch" or "kh")

Mormon - מרמן or מורמן – literally "from/of the master" (from - man // master - mar/mor)"

Almah - עלמה – as the Hebrew would mean maiden I assume it's Aramaic. It'd mean literally "world" or "universe" in Aramaic.

Moroni - מרני or מורני - the last yud would adjectify the word "maran" (our master) so this would mean something like "belonging to our master" (this is a rough translation)

Moronihah - מרניה or מורניה – literally means "Yah is our master"

Ammonihah - אמניה – literally "Yah is truthful"

ZaraHemlah - זרחמלה or זרה-חמלה– This is most interesting: I'm betting it's a compound name of Zarah (stranger/foreign) + Hemlah (compassion) - ie. compassion unto a foreign people?

Korihor - קריאה-אור - another possible compound name: kariah-or - which would mean "called unto light"

Moriantom - מרי–אמתם or מורי–אמתם - one more compound name: mori-amtem - which would mean "my master is their truth"

Zenock - זנוק – literally "start"

Ripliancum - "[He] has caused me to rise"

הפיל (hepil - has caused)
אני (ani - me)
קום (kum - to rise)

Coriantumr - חורין-תומר - chorin-tumr (the free - the palm) - I would suppose it means "the free people from the palm region"

Shiz looks like "She-oz" (עזש) which could mean "that is strong" or "that is goat-like"

Lib - לב - (Lev/Leb) it literally means "heart". In hebrew the letter ב can be pronounced as a "b" or as a "v". This word is also used to mean "center" or "core" much like in English.
So I assume this was a very loved baby or came to become the center of the family.

Ether sounds more israelite. There are three possibilities for Ether:

עטר - (Eter) - literally means "adorned" or "crowned"
אטר - (Eter) - means "left handed". As a humorous side-note it could also mean "weird" though I would pity a baby that is called "weird" by his own parents. Highly unlikely. Left-handed is possible though.
אתר - (Eter) - means "location", "site" or possibly "place of digging"

Lehi - לחי - (Lehi) means "jaw" or "jawbone"
Nephi - Could it come from נפיל "Nephil"? It means giant or very tall in Hebrew.

About the currency I'll take it slow as there are many. Here are a few:

senine - סנן - (senen) means "pure" or "filtered". Could it be purified silver?
amnor - I don't know but it makes me think of "am'n or" (אמן אור)which would be literally "true light" or "truly shiny".
ezrom - עזרם - (ezram) means "their aid".
onti - חנוטי - chanoti - ripened (not so sure about this one though)
senom - This is interesting. Considering its relationship with the senine, I would say it probably originally meant סננים (s'nenim) which would be the plural form of senine. I can see how s'nenim easily would become s'nem as a slang form which is pretty close to senom. ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion thekabalist http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27741-hebrew-names-bom.html Introducing A Friend http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27734-introducing-friend.html Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:04:25 GMT Hey folks. I wanted to introduce a friend who wandered into the LDS section of Christianforums.com, and has some very interesting contributions to understanding the correlation of ancient Judaism and our faith. Needless to say, he was not very welcomed at CF, and has suffered a few abuses for his point of view. I told him about lds.net, and promised to introduce him here.

He went by the name "thekabalist", but I'm not sure what alias he will use here. Please welcome him. I think you will not be disappointed in some of his work. Here is a sample:

Quote:

Hi forum,
At the request of Vanhin I was going through your scriptures and found something of interest. I didn't have much time to look things through but I wanted to give you a glimpse of ancient hebrew tradition.

I saw that in one of your books there is a star called Kolob right? This is what I read: "and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God".

The term "Kolob" would be written as follows: קלב
It is quite interesting because this would in ancient Hebrew mean quite literally "that which is in likeness of a heart" because the particle ק means "in likeness of" and the word "לב" means "heart".

Now in ancient Hebrew we also have a practice of letter permutation. Essentially it means the Hebrew letters can be permuted to find alternative meanings. What is amusing is that one of the two other possible words with these letters would be קבל which means literally "to receive" and is used in connection with a deeper revelation from G-d. This is the basic root of the Hebrew word "Kabbalah" for instance.

The other two take us back to Nm. 23:1 where the Bible makes a pun with the words לקב (to curse) and בלק (Balak) which is understood as meaning that G-d inverted the curse that was upon the sons of Israel.

When we look at the ancient knowledge of gematria which is to look at the numeric value of the words there's also something pretty cool: the number 132 is the numeric value we have.

This is also the number of the expression יהוה אלהים which is usually translated as "Lord G-d" but I have already explained previously to mean "He who is the lifegiver of the Powerful ones". So the name Kolob bears the same value and essence as the name "Lord G-d".

I'll leave the interpretation up to you!

שלום
shalom

Regards,
Vanhin ]]> LDS Gospel Discussion Vanhin http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27734-introducing-friend.html