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		<title>LDS Mormon Forums - Christian Beliefs Board</title>
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		<description>General Religious Discussions for Friends of Other Faiths</description>
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			<title>LDS Mormon Forums - Christian Beliefs Board</title>
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			<title>Nicene creed</title>
			<link>http://www.lds.net/forums/christian-beliefs-board/27774-nicene-creed.html</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 05:23:16 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[For those who hold to the Nicene Creed, can you explain to me why?  I've heard from my Christian friends that the Bible is sufficient and perfect, yet they trace so many of their beliefs to the Nicene Creed.  In fact, their definition of Christian comes from this.  I'm just trying to understand why they hold the Nicene Creed as a standard.  Wasn't it made up of a bunch of men who wanted to clear up anything ambiguous from the Bible?  How isn't that considered adding to the Bible?

Please set me straight.  Thank you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>For those who hold to the Nicene Creed, can you explain to me why?  I've heard from my Christian friends that the Bible is sufficient and perfect, yet they trace so many of their beliefs to the Nicene Creed.  In fact, their definition of Christian comes from this.  I'm just trying to understand why they hold the Nicene Creed as a standard.  Wasn't it made up of a bunch of men who wanted to clear up anything ambiguous from the Bible?  How isn't that considered adding to the Bible?<br />
<br />
Please set me straight.  Thank you.</div>

]]></content:encoded>
			<category domain="http://www.lds.net/forums/christian-beliefs-board/">Christian Beliefs Board</category>
			<dc:creator>beefche</dc:creator>
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			<title><![CDATA[Verses in the KJV which do not appear in the NIV & other contemporary translations]]></title>
			<link>http://www.lds.net/forums/christian-beliefs-board/27695-verses-kjv-do-not-appear-niv-other-contemporary-translations.html</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 05:26:23 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[I was looking into buying another bible.  I wanted a thinner one that I can really put some time into with notes and stuff that I can keep at my office.  I was reading a little about the N.I.V. (New International Version) and I read something that I found very interesting and wanted to see what you all thought about it.  I'll post it here:
 

---Quote---
*The words are in the footnotes, with the note that they occur in later manuscripts. They are entirely absent from the early Greek manuscripts and papyri. So why are these words found in the KJV?*

The talented KJV translators worked from 1604 to 1611 and they did a fine job with the very limited resources available to them back then. They had basically twelve ancient manuscripts which the subcommittees shared. Since that time, however, many hundreds of additional manuscripts have been found, and many of them are far older than those available to the KJV team. And of course, more ancient means closer to the originals, closer to the first inspired manuscripts which came from the mind of God to the original authors. Therefore they are also more trustworthy and reliable.
---End Quote---
 
and then this small part:
 

---Quote---
*Additions to the Word of God*

The KJV translators did not intend to add to the Word of God. They did their best, but all they had to work with was a handful of copies of the Greek manuscripts of the New Testament books. These were very late copies dating from a thousand (!) years after the New Testament was written. In a few sections they had no Greek manuscript at all! Instead, they had to rely on the Latin Vulgate's rendering of what they thought must have originally been in the Greek!
Through the providence of God, many more Greek manuscripts had been preserved and were subsequently discovered—in fact, more than five thousand of them. Some were very old indeed, dating back much farther than the relatively few the KJV translators used. Some of the Greek manuscripts date back to the four hundreds and three hundreds—even to about a.d. 200. These ancient manuscripts were more reliable and accurate, not being corrupted by errors made during countless times of copying, such as occurred with the late manuscripts used by the KJV.
As a result we know today, with a high degree of accuracy, what was in the original writings.1 Uncertainty now exists in only an infinitesimally small part of the New Testament (the difference would be comparable to that between "don't" and "do not" or "street" and "way").
*Some examples* of verses that the KJV added to the Word of God, even though it did so unwittingly and in all innocence, are 

* Matthew 17:21 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Matthew+17:20-21&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns); 18:11 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Matthew+18:10-12&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns); 23:14 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Matthew+23:13-15&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns)
* Mark 7:16 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Mark+7:15-17&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns); 9:44 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Mark+9:43-45&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns), 46 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Mark+9:45-47&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns); 11:26 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Mark+11:25-27&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns); 15:28 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Mark+15:27-29&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns)
* Luke 17:36 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Luke+17:35-37&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns); 23:17 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Luke+23:16-18&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns)
* John 5:4 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=John+5:3-5&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns)
* Acts 8:37 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Acts+8:36-38&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns); 15:34 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Acts+15:33-35&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns); 24:7 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Acts+24:6-8&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns); 28:29 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Acts+28:28-30&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns)
* Romans 16:24 (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Romans+16:23-25&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns)
* 1 John 5:7b-8a (http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=1+John+5:6-9&niv=yes&kjv=yes&display_option=columns)

In addition many phrases and words were also added.
---End Quote---
  Thoughts?
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><font size="3">I was looking into buying another bible.  I wanted a thinner one that I can really put some time into with notes and stuff that I can keep at my office.  I was reading a little about the N.I.V. (New International Version) and I read something that I found very interesting and wanted to see what you all thought about it.  I'll post it here:</font><br />
 <br />
<font size="3"><div style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px; ">
	<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px">Quote:</div>
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			<hr />
			
				<b>The words are in the footnotes, with the note that they occur in later manuscripts. They are entirely absent from the early Greek manuscripts and papyri. So why are these words found in the KJV?</b><br />
<br />
The talented KJV translators worked from 1604 to 1611 and they did a fine job with the very limited resources available to them back then. They had basically twelve ancient manuscripts which the subcommittees shared. Since that time, however, many hundreds of additional manuscripts have been found, and many of them are far older than those available to the KJV team. And of course, more ancient means closer to the originals, closer to the first inspired manuscripts which came from the mind of God to the original authors. Therefore they are also more trustworthy and reliable.
			
			<hr />
		</td>
	</tr>
	</table>
</div>and then this small part:<br />
 <br />
<div style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px; ">
	<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px">Quote:</div>
	<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%">
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		<td class="alt2">
			<hr />
			
				<b>Additions to the Word of God</b><br />
<br />
<div align="left">The KJV translators did not intend to add to the Word of God. They did their best, but all they had to work with was a handful of copies of the Greek manuscripts of the New Testament books. These were very late copies dating from a thousand (!) years after the New Testament was written. In a few sections they had no Greek manuscript at all! Instead, they had to rely on the Latin Vulgate's rendering of what they thought must have originally been in the Greek!<br />
Through the providence of God, many more Greek manuscripts had been preserved and were subsequently discovered—in fact, more than five thousand of them. Some were very old indeed, dating back much farther than the relatively few the KJV translators used. Some of the Greek manuscripts date back to the four hundreds and three hundreds—even to about a.d. 200. These ancient manuscripts were more reliable and accurate, not being corrupted by errors made during countless times of copying, such as occurred with the late manuscripts used by the KJV.<br />
As a result we know today, with a high degree of accuracy, what was in the original writings.1 Uncertainty now exists in only an infinitesimally small part of the New Testament (the difference would be comparable to that between &quot;don't&quot; and &quot;do not&quot; or &quot;street&quot; and &quot;way&quot;).<br />
<b>Some examples</b> of verses that the KJV added to the Word of God, even though it did so unwittingly and in all innocence, are </div><ul><li><a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Matthew+17:20-21&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">Matthew 17:21</a>; <a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Matthew+18:10-12&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">18:11</a>; <a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Matthew+23:13-15&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">23:14</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Mark+7:15-17&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">Mark 7:16</a>; <a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Mark+9:43-45&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">9:44</a>, <a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Mark+9:45-47&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">46</a>; <a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Mark+11:25-27&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">11:26</a>; <a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Mark+15:27-29&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">15:28</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Luke+17:35-37&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">Luke 17:36</a>; <a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Luke+23:16-18&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">23:17</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=John+5:3-5&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">John 5:4</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Acts+8:36-38&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">Acts 8:37</a>; <a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Acts+15:33-35&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">15:34</a>; <a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Acts+24:6-8&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">24:7</a>; <a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Acts+28:28-30&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">28:29</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=Romans+16:23-25&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">Romans 16:24</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.biblica.com/bible/verse/?q=1+John+5:6-9&amp;niv=yes&amp;kjv=yes&amp;display_option=columns" target="_blank">1 John 5:7b-8a</a></li>
</ul>In addition many phrases and words were also added.
			
			<hr />
		</td>
	</tr>
	</table>
</div>  Thoughts?<br />
</font></div>

]]></content:encoded>
			<category domain="http://www.lds.net/forums/christian-beliefs-board/">Christian Beliefs Board</category>
			<dc:creator>Dr T</dc:creator>
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			<title>Baptized!</title>
			<link>http://www.lds.net/forums/christian-beliefs-board/27604-baptized.html</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 05:57:38 GMT</pubDate>
			<description>3 of my amazing sons and I got baptized tonight in the Christian church!</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><font size="3">3 of my amazing sons and I got baptized tonight in the Christian church!</font></div>

]]></content:encoded>
			<category domain="http://www.lds.net/forums/christian-beliefs-board/">Christian Beliefs Board</category>
			<dc:creator>Dr T</dc:creator>
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			<title>T D Jakes?</title>
			<link>http://www.lds.net/forums/christian-beliefs-board/27471-t-d-jakes.html</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:03:10 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[PC,
 
At Hillsong conference this year they are having  T D Jakes, I'm curious as to your thoughts on him? (specifically his "onenss" leanings)
 
 
His churches websites defintely uses "manifestations" not "persons" in regards to the persons of the godhead.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>PC,<br />
 <br />
At Hillsong conference this year they are having  T D Jakes, I'm curious as to your thoughts on him? (specifically his &quot;onenss&quot; leanings)<br />
 <br />
 <br />
His churches websites defintely uses &quot;manifestations&quot; not &quot;persons&quot; in regards to the persons of the godhead.</div>

]]></content:encoded>
			<category domain="http://www.lds.net/forums/christian-beliefs-board/">Christian Beliefs Board</category>
			<dc:creator>AnthonyB</dc:creator>
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