Free Innocent FLDS Children Now!

[Maya]

I have a frend who married under 20 I thinbk it was 16 a man 50 of age. She LOVED him.... an other frend was 12 as she was married to an older man, in her country it was usuall.... Every man that marries a lot younger spouse is not pedoph neither is every man that marries a shorty...

I think in this case there is a lot to do with the "education" of boys. And also the fact that the kids, especially girls did not know about the world around thm, they diid not know anything better...

I can understand a closed compaund to shelter from bad world.... I sometimes wish I could live in a closed compaund with TV adn Radio I could watch, if you get my idea. I just happened to watch TV for 2 minutes here in Finland... had to close it, every second word (almost) by the program leader was a pip for me! But it NEVER should get so closed that the kids and week cant get help if needed.

I just wonder if the call was made by a "frend" who thinks that it was terrible what happened in there.... especially the young mothers. Nowadays that IS way too young. In some situations it may be right but NOT in USA NOT now. And like many say ther are MANY other groups too that need to be cleaned!

We know that to force is not Gods way, so we know WHO is in lead if forcing is being practiced. ALSO the person involved MUST understand what is happening and what is the OTHER possibilities or there is NO free will!

Yes Mary was 14.

I think people should be a bit more careful in calling other people with names, no mattter what... Someone once said: those that are without sinn... and what about the splinter in the eye...

Ok these people may have a bigger splinter in the eye than any of us... and I think it is good they stoped this. I am just very sad about the negative publicity our Church has got of this.

In a way it also is against the freedom of religion, and that is really bad. A step closer to a ditatorism. Why use it here if not use it against other groups mentioned in this discussion. It is kind of funny how many things are beeing made leagal for the tought of freedom of religion or thought.... and this one is put down. I could name many things MORE dangerous, that are now allowed/beeing allowed in society than polygamy or marriage between a young girl and older man!! Not forgetting the free choise!

Finnan you must have finnish blood in you... you are shooting with hard amo!

[Fiannan]

Finnan you must have finnish blood in you... you are shooting with hard amo!

Well yes, how did you know? The rest of my genes come from Ireland and the Cherokee Nation.

Good thing I don't drink, huh?

[Maya]

Heheh like I said you shoot with hard amo.. like finnish usually do... direct to the point and no mercy... no winding paths... I do that too. But we are able to say we were wrong ... if we ever are!

[Fiannan]

Originally Posted by Moksha

I felt this picture rather compelling. Who among you would wish to force marriage to some old goat upon these young women?

Here's a case where American society honors and adores an old man with young girlfriends -- although no, he isn't married to them (guess that makes it okay):

Opps, I think I'd better edit this since they mention a naughty word in the article about Hugh Hefner and his 3 REALLY young girlfriends. So bue bye link (although you could just google Hugh Hefner and his girlfriends with the safe search on of course).

[Fiannan]

Originally Posted by Mailis

Heheh like I said you shoot with hard amo.. like finnish usually do... direct to the point and no mercy... no winding paths... I do that too. But we are able to say we were wrong ... if we ever are!

Yeah, I am married to a Swede but she has some ancestory from the area of Russia that was inhabited by Finns for centuries. So she stands her ground pretty good, as opposed to mild-mannered Swedes who generally are very passive. Just curious, what is your impression of the Swedish mind?

Oh, and not to let this thread get hijacked so on a related note to the polygamists isn't it far more acceptable in the eastern countries of Europe to have older men and younger women in relationships?

[rosie321]

first off, brainwashing fourteen year olds to believe its good or even mandatory to have relations is wrong. period. The same goes for doing it to anyone of any age, come to think of it. Is it brainwashing children or exercising religious practices that have been in existence for thousands of years? Though they may appear similar there's a big difference between the two.

Brainwashing children to think they are ugly and unworthy is wrong.
Teaching them they need to have liposuction, nose jobs and implants is also wrong.
Letting gang culture flourish to the point where schools all over the country need metaldetectors is wrong.

--As such i dont really see where mainstream society (in persona of CPS) gets its moral highground from? Totally in agreement with you here. The FLDS are being tried in the court of public opinion mainly on cultural issues.

The abuse of children should stop, and be stopped, true. Everywhere! Why focus on this 400 strong group, though?
We live in a world where drugaddicts bear children for the point of smuggling drugs inside them.
In europe alone there are an estimated twohundred and fifty THOUSAND (250.000 ! ) "white slaves" that is people (girls and boys) picked off the streets of the former soviet nations, held captive, transported across borders and forced to work against their will in what PC calls the 'adult entertainment industry'.
These girls are not all of legal age, for sure. And dont tell me that sort of thing doesnt happen in America. Just look at your local chinese massage parlor. -agreed
In this context we have girls of 14 forced to be with men (plural) that they do not even know, also of ages 50 and above, with no perceived perspective of eternal salvation (be that notion misguided or otherwise). These children do not seem forced to do anything in the traditional sense of being forced(ie. no one literally has held a gun to their head-this has never been alleged). One may say that there is psychological trauma. But this has not been proven yet, whereas the forms of abuse that you discussed above have. All of the differences could be merely religious and cultural.

While the media reports and transcripts have mocked the dress, authoritarian ways, and lack of the childrens knowledge of parents(cultural reasons were offered for this) they have also reported that the children seem happy and enjoyed interacting and playing with the guards etc. They did not seem repressed and fearful. They did want to go home with their community. But who wouldn't expect a child to want to go home to their family? The environment they live in is clean. When they were found they were singing hymns. I know people who have had children with people they did not know. This stuff happens. Their children are not removed, however. I just do not understand how we can try these people and look for things when there are clear cases of abuse being let go.

You say they have no percieved perspective of eternal salvation. How do you know this? Perspective according to who? You?


Now it is the same mainstream society, that condones the above practice (and ultimately pays to keep it operational), that would prosecute the YFZ people at tremendous expense. Why is nothing discernable being done about these other countless open and unconcealed crimes? Agree with you to a point here. Nothing has been done about far worse crimes and the crimes these people are supposedly guilty may have been federally funded and supported if public moneys were given.

That said, i would like to distance myself from both what happened/happens in the YFZ. And from the texas law's reaction for that matter. Just look at this thread, though: we're on our 9th page!! Is there nothing else going on in the world that deserves our indignation? Last I heard there was something unspeakable going on in Darfur, for instance.

Wouldn't we all like to distance ourselves. This is one of those pivotal events though that can have a big implications in the future. What happens here can set precedents for later things.

There are many issues that demand attention. If the government is not kept in check the CPS and other state official powers will only expand. It seems like it may have overstepped its boundaries. If it has, and we allow it to continue, it will be acceptable to step on peoples rights anytime. All for the good of the children. When will the state decide whats best for you and your family? Each time we let go of our powers and form against "an enemy" or someone whose different we risk becoming like the Germans when they let Hitler take over their country.

While my heart breaks over what is happening in many places around the world, such as Darfur, the US needs to be kept in check. We need to fight for freedoms at home or we may wind up like one of these other countries.

[Maya]

Hu not sure about the older men, younger women... my hubby is 9 years older than me...
I was listening to Swedish radia while I drove across Sweden to catch the ferry to Finland... they were talking about men with plural... women... ther was a swed who had 3 wifes.. living in same town... he just moved from one to an other .. about a week at each.. teh wemen were good frends but did not live cose. An other one had two houses beside one an other and was considering taking one more woman. I think they were married to one at the time... devorced then married the other.... Someone was just introducing a 3rd woman ( 5 years younger than the others) to the two he had before... HEY THAT is completely ok.. they were over 17 and besides he was married to ONLY one a the time!
They said there are MANY living like this in the northern countries!

Eh swedish mind... UH... you know you should never ask a full blooded finn their opinion on swedish.... unless there is a lot finnish blood in that person, like many from the Swedish Norwegean finnishforests have...

When a teanager I swore I will NEVER marry a swed.. I married a Norwegean...

ANYTHING goes in ishocey if JUST Finland wins against Sweden..

Here is a Swedish Norwegana, Dannish pattern of making a decition: A meeting where they try to find out and inform everyone, what they have to decide and why... was not ready in 1st meeting... probaly need 10 more meetings to clarify that. Then at least 20 meeting for agreeing on the grounds of the decition and then 30 to make sure everyone is understanding and willing. Then 20 plan meetings and then go...
Finnish pattern: a meeting where they clarify what decition is to be made... everyone knows why or if not they see that the leaders want it to be done. In the same meeting they decide what to do. May need one more meeting to clarify how, the plan, where ... and when... it will be tried as soon as possible and everything they learn from the trial will be taken to the next meeting.

My dad was born in Viipuri now under Russia. People from there are usually talkative lively and they have good humor and they bend but dont break. Swedish often think they are better... I just let them think that way, easier to handle then.

[kona0197]

Someone said Mary was 14 when she had Jesus? I find that very hard to believe and very disturbing.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I thought it was a well known fact that she was only a young girl and that Joseph was much older. It was common for Jewish girls at the time to marry at 12 years of age, so becoming a mother at 14 would not be abnormal at all.

[User-Removed]

Originally Posted by kona0197

Someone said Mary was 14 when she had Jesus? I find that very hard to believe and very disturbing.

Why do you find that disturbing...considering that the life expectency was like maybe late 20's early 30's?