Free Innocent FLDS Children Now!

[User-Removed]

Rosie...When you refer to "Rogue Elements" in the Church...please clarify?????

TIA

[rosie321]

Originally Posted by MyDogSkip

Your first question vis a vis Jeffs Cult vs LDS is rhetorical????

Second...Would you mind sharing what is so "complex" for you on this isssue...that others find so "simple"????


TIA

There are many who see Jeff's cult in the same light as the LDS church based upon our history.


The government appears to have overstepped its bounds. How much lattitude should we give in the the interest of protecting children. As discussed previously this is a slippery slope that should be monitored carefully. The government has great power given it and must be kept in check so rights and freedoms are protected.

Why wasn't more preparation given regarding the care of these children. If the government was concerned about these children and were fearful for them in so much that there was an informant living there don't you think more preparations should have been made?

The beliefs of these people are the things that seem to be the thing that is recieving the most attention rather than the supposed crimes. Why? Once again I have to say I can't help but wonder if at least a part of it is about the timing of it especially considering political discussion during that time (ie. VP candidate).

The LDS are being tied to this group.

The usage of the Baptist buses also seems to be used to vilify this group. As it has been posted other groups are not pursued with such venom.

These people very well may be guilty. Of the actual crimes what evidence is there? Let the evidence speak for itself as justice would allow.

If proven a crime really exists, the way in which this whole event was handled though may risk any punishment of crime or help for the members of this system. Had things been handled differently there may have been more cooperation and the children given options.

Rosie...When you refer to "Rogue Elements" in the Church...please clarify?????

Those who act against the guidelines of the church, harm members spiritually or physically, or teach outside of standards in a way that might negatively impact another. Granted their stay is usually limited as the behaviors are discovered. Then they become Rogue elements without the church (like Lucifer)

[User-Removed]

Rosie...Please explain your reference to "our history" and the Jeffs Cult...As a "lifer" in the Church, I have yet to come upon any good member of the Church, male or female...who is longing for the return of Plural Marriage.

Additionally, the beliefs of the Jeffs Cult aren't the crux of this controversy here, marrying underage children is. There are numerous polygamous operations in this country and the world. The other day on NPR, I heard an investigator from Georgia claim that there are over 200 polygamous sects in America alone. What separates them from the Jeffs Cult? Jeffs is the ONLY sect who marry off underage children.

Warren Jeffs made a strategic error in moving his crew to Texas...what is it that bumper sticker says????

Don't Mess With Texas?

[rosie321]

Please explain your reference to "our history" and the Jeffs Cult...As a "lifer" in the Church, I have yet to come upon any good member of the Church, male or female...who is longing for the return of Plural Marriage.

D&C 132 , church history, the attacks against the church...
These people started out LDS too and it could be viewed that we may be the ones that fell away. Will we go back.

As far as not longing for polygamy that sentiment among members is understandable considering that the proclamation against it. But what would happen if new revelation came which asked members to practice it again? I'm sure people would line up to be obedient to the command. What if the leaders were to permit underage marrying because of the need?

Additionally, the beliefs of the Jeffs Cult aren't the crux of this controversy here, marrying underage children is. There are numerous polygamous operations in this country and the world. The other day on NPR, I heard an investigator from Georgia claim that there are over 200 polygamous sects in America alone. What separates them from the Jeffs Cult? Jeffs is the ONLY sect who marry off underage children.

As has been pointed out before the whole idea of underage children is a recent cultural phenomenea. Marriages have been arranged for very young children. I can't say I like or approve of it myself but I am wary of jumping on someone who is practicing it not knowing the intent behind what they did. For me there's a huge difference for people who sell children into prostitution rings and those who are trying to create a family oriented environment based on their beliefs.

[User-Removed]

Rosie...I give up...from your responses, you clearly in my view either don't have a testimony or not much of one. I'm not trying to be insulting here, but to feign that we might be wrong...and those guys might be right is just more than a tad bit insulting....

Thanks for your input...

[Fiannan]

Originally Posted by MyDogSkip

Rosie...I give up...from your responses, you clearly in my view either don't have a testimony or not much of one. I'm not trying to be insulting here, but to feign that we might be wrong...and those guys might be right is just more than a tad bit insulting....

Thanks for your input...

Ouch.

[Fiannan]

Originally Posted by MyDogSkip

Fiannan...Please explain this is greater detail...Since my ancestors were in that initial meeting on April 6, 1830...your historical reference doesn't quite match up with mine.

I'd be interested in discussing this further with you.

Check out the history of the Utah Territories in the mid 1800s.

[rosie321]

Originally Posted by MyDogSkip

Rosie...I give up...from your responses, you clearly in my view either don't have a testimony or not much of one. I'm not trying to be insulting here, but to feign that we might be wrong...and those guys might be right is just more than a tad bit insulting....

Thanks for your input...

I'll leave that judgement in another hands-thank you very much.

As far as whether we are right or wrong can be lost in the perspective of where one is standing.

To the world outside of the LDS community we are wrong just as the FLDS are. I'm merely challenging you to other views that are outside of the compound of your mind or belief system.

It appears that it was not possible for you to consider realities outside of your mental compound.

[rosie321]

[quote=Fiannan;190527]I absolutely agree! Problem is, American is one of the most controled societies (and easily led ones) in the world (some say it has to be since we don't have the option of shooting people for going against the government or the ruling class's desires for our lives). [QUOTE]However, one should try to break away from this dominance through being aware of it and striving to maintain individuality as much as possible (actually, a Gospel message).[/QUOTE]

Knowledge is power

[rosie321]

QUOTE]
Injustices have always been perpetrated in the name of religion. Take a look at the Old Testament. That was a brutal time of hostile takeover in the name of God. When the Isrealites were taking over cities I'm sure their actions weren't percieved by the people in the lands that the Isrealites were loving their neighbors. Or that they were protecting their freedom and free agency. Older men were with younger women. Women were treated as property. If one person died women were given to another. Polygamy did occur. As did many other things in the name of religion.
Some of this was mandated by scripture while some was cultural. Your point being?[/QUOTE]
There are so many different avenues for discussion on this whole situation that sometimes they blur together.

As I've tried to express before are these acts the people are performing so outrageous? The whole idea of polygamy, arranged marriages, and young brides are condemned. This is being done by LDS, I'm certain, with the intent to seperate ourselves from this group and try to publically explain the differences. I have concerns regarding this.

I cannot understand why LDS people are expressing such disgust and outrage at behaviors that have only recently become against the law and regarded as no longer culturally acceptable. These acts did occur. Why should we try and hide from it. Or minimize their existence. I may not understand it or agree with it but it did happen.
We are creating the measuring stick by which to judge us.

Many people outside the faith want to know and understand what we believe. To say we don't practice it anymore, condemn others for the very idea, label people who don't understand the changes, get a self righteous type of attitude (its true because I said so), seems wrong to me. How can we create mutual understanding if we are not being honest about it?

Polygamy is a part of the history. We will be associated it forever. Others may view it as appalling but it happened. Not only in LDS circles but in other belief circles also. The LDs recieve no benefit from denying its existance or getting all offended by it.

I believe as you Fianian that there were cultural and spiritual reasons for the "appaling behaviors" I listed above. I don't believe the FLDS are operating under the will of the Lord therefore they will face actions. However, that judgement is not mine to dispense nor is it for the state in an inappropriate way. Their beliefs have been put on trial.

I understand that these practices of the FLDS are not practiced by the LDS church at this time. I understand the reasons why as much as is possible. However, it did happen and who knows if it will ever be reinstituted. People outside of the church just want to know the truth. Polygamy under the Lords direction would be a far different thing from what the world would expect.

We set the measuring stick by which we are judged.