Free Innocent FLDS Children Now!

[Fiannan]

At least the FLDS married their teenage wives:

As Mao aged, he became increasingly obsessive about his personal health. He took seriously the traditional Chinese belief that making love to a young woman, preferably a virgin, would help to restore and reinvigorate a man's health and vigor. Girls from throughout China were brought to his bed, some willingly and some not.

About.com: http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/east_asian_history/116516

From another article I read these females were around 13 or 14 generally.

Just a bit of trivia to make sure people don't think all this kind of stuff is limited to religious folk.

[rosie321]

Fiannan You have a knack for finding the most interesting thing and introducing different perspectives

You truly are a free thinker.

Thanks for your posts

At least the FLDS married their teenage wives:


Quote:
As Mao aged, he became increasingly obsessive about his personal health. He took seriously the traditional Chinese belief that making love to a young woman, preferably a virgin, would help to restore and reinvigorate a man's health and vigor. Girls from throughout China were brought to his bed, some willingly and some not.
About.com: http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/east_asian_history/116516

From another article I read these females were around 13 or 14 generally.

Just a bit of trivia to make sure people don't think all this kind of stuff is limited to religious folk

[crytsprospect]

You can be sure Texas authorities are doing all they can to follow the law. This is a legal nightmare but if it saves abused children's lives I am all for it. The huge difference from us and them is that we follow council from Father in Heaven not misguided man full of power.

[User-Removed]

You know Finnian...there are days I miss Chairman Mao...and other days when I long for Uncle Joe...

As my favorite bumper sticker said..."Revive the Inquisition"


bwahahahahaha

[ruthiechan]

The issue here is adults having sex with minors specifically adult men with underage girls which is illegal. These girls were sheltered and have grown up believing that this was how life is. They have been brain washed because all their lives they have been indoctrinated with the teachings that this is okay behavior and this is all there is to life and have had little to no contact with the outside world. Therefore, they do not have the same free agency that we do.

It does not matter what other cultures do or have done in the past. Those were different times with different societal needs and different laws. In America, it is illegal for an adult to have sex with a minor, period the end.

If these girls were "spiritually married" but did not have sex with their "spiritual husbands" until after they were legally adults then, while it might all seem strange and maybe even wrong it would then, at least, NOT be illegal. If this was how they practiced their polygamous religion and a raid still occurred THEN we could be up in arms about religious freedoms being stepped upon, but as it is, that is not the case, therefore CPS was RIGHT in stepping in and getting those kids out of there, though I do agree that it should have been managed better.

[Moksha]

Mao and Jeffs?

[Fiannan]

The issue here is adults having sex with minors specifically adult men with underage girls which is illegal.

Yes...or no...I mean doesn't it depend on what the laws are where you are standing at the time? Here was an interesting case that illustrates this perfectly:

FOXNews.com - Kansas Lawmakers Set Minimum Marriage Age to 15 - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum

As I have stated earlier as well, a polygamist is in a catch-22. If the minimum marriage age in a state is, let's say, 15 then he can marry a 15 year old and consumate the marriage legally. However, if he is already married then no state in the USA considers the next marriage legal. So if the age on consent in that state is 16 and he is consumating the marriage
with her then he is breaking the law. However, if she were 16 then he could have sex with her (depending on the state, some states say a 16 or 17 year old cannot consent to sex with someone over a certain age) and no law has been broken.

These girls were sheltered and have grown up believing that this was how life is. They have been brain washed because all their lives they have been indoctrinated with the teachings that this is okay behavior and this is all there is to life and have had little to no contact with the outside world. Therefore, they do not have the same free agency that we do.

One could say that about the entire Islamic world as well, couldn't we? I mean after all, Mohammed married a 9 year old and many countries in the Middle East allow marriage at such young ages.

For the first time in Yemen - 8-year-old girl asks for divorce in court - front - Yemen Times

It does not matter what other cultures do or have done in the past. Those were different times with different societal needs and different laws. In America, it is illegal for an adult to have sex with a minor, period the end.

I have laready pointed out that this is not necessarily correct. Also, do you admit then that law does not reflect morality -- just a societal and political process of running society in a certain way? The scriptures do not outlaw marriage to a 14 year old or even between cousins. So in a sense, Jeff's violated the laws of society but not the laws of the Bible.

If these girls were "spiritually married" but did not have sex with their "spiritual husbands" until after they were legally adults then, while it might all seem strange and maybe even wrong it would then, at least, NOT be illegal. If this was how they practiced their polygamous religion and a raid still occurred THEN we could be up in arms about religious freedoms being stepped upon, but as it is, that is not the case, therefore CPS was RIGHT in stepping in and getting those kids out of there, though I do agree that it should have been managed better.

So the ends justify the means? Who should these mothers sue if any of their kids are placed in foster homes and are sexually abused by their foster parents? Who should these mothers complain to if their kids are placed on mind-numbing drugs, as is common in Texas? And since when do we go after people as groups rather than individuals? If a law has been broken go after the perpetrator, not innocent women and children. This makes as much sense as a law I read about in a Latin country where if a man is caught drunk in public the police go home and arrest his wife.

[rosie321]

Great post! Interjected own thoughts. Comments are in red.


[QUOTE] Quote:
The issue here is adults having sex with minors specifically adult men with underage girls which is illegal.
Yes...or no...I mean doesn't it depend on what the laws are where you are standing at the time? Thank you. Exactly. That's one thought I've tried to put into words, though not as simply as this though

Here was an interesting case that illustrates this perfectly:

FOXNews.com - Kansas Lawmakers Set Minimum Marriage Age to 15 - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum

As I have stated earlier as well, a polygamist is in a catch-22. If the minimum marriage age in a state is, let's say, 15 then he can marry a 15 year old and consumate the marriage legally. However, if he is already married then no state in the USA considers the next marriage legal. So if the age on consent in that state is 16 and he is consumating the marriage
with her then he is breaking the law. However, if she were 16 then he could have sex with her (depending on the state, some states say a 16 or 17 year old cannot consent to sex with someone over a certain age) and no law has been broken.
Agreed. The law is relevant only where you are standing at the moment and can be changed at any time.
Plus sometimes legislations are decided with little to no warning at all. Things are slipped in and attached with other items so that the people signing them into law don't even know what they are signing. Also they don't understand the contradictions at times within their own law.

Its much better to keep the laws simple and to do as the Lord would. Teach people to govern themselves and to love their neighbor. Then people won't be motivated towards such abuse. It seems the more laws that we have the less moral we become and the more lawless some become.


Quote:
These girls were sheltered and have grown up believing that this was how life is. They have been brain washed because all their lives they have been indoctrinated with the teachings that this is okay behavior and this is all there is to life and have had little to no contact with the outside world. Therefore, they do not have the same free agency that we do.
One could say that about the entire Islamic world as well, couldn't we? I mean after all, Mohammed married a 9 year old and many countries in the Middle East allow marriage at such young ages.

For the first time in Yemen - 8-year-old girl asks for divorce in court - front - Yemen Times


Quote:
It does not matter what other cultures do or have done in the past. Those were different times with different societal needs and different laws. In America, it is illegal for an adult to have sex with a minor, period the end.
I have laready pointed out that this is not necessarily correct. Also, do you admit then that law does not reflect morality -- just a societal and political process of running society in a certain way? The scriptures do not outlaw marriage to a 14 year old or even between cousins. So in a sense, Jeff's violated the laws of society but not the laws of the Bible.

The rules of society can change at any time. Why should a religious person, who follows the will of their God, be punished because the rules were changed by man?


Quote:
If these girls were "spiritually married" but did not have sex with their "spiritual husbands" until after they were legally adults then, while it might all seem strange and maybe even wrong it would then, at least, NOT be illegal. If this was how they practiced their polygamous religion and a raid still occurred THEN we could be up in arms about religious freedoms being stepped upon, but as it is, that is not the case, therefore CPS was RIGHT in stepping in and getting those kids out of there, though I do agree that it should have been managed better.
So the ends justify the means? Who should these mothers sue if any of their kids are placed in foster homes and are sexually abused by their foster parents? Who should these mothers complain to if their kids are placed on mind-numbing drugs, as is common in Texas? And since when do we go after people as groups rather than individuals? If a law has been broken go after the perpetrator, not innocent women and children. This makes as much sense as a law I read about in a Latin country where if a man is caught drunk in public the police go home and arrest his wife. Agreed. These women already have had any rights to protect themselves taken away. (ie. They had their cell phones withheld, were unable to speak with their attorney) No one seems to care about their rights nor their childrens. These women are the ones facing all the punishment here.. QUOTE]

[Kamperfoelie]

Notwithstanding the fact that human rights are being abused, and the freedom of religion is a great good: in this long, long thread, it has become obvious that there are those that will use any arguments imaginable to justify the YFZ, and the marriage, spiritual or otherwise, of children to far older men.

Why is that? Why is the YFZ being defended so vehemently? Because LDS, too, was persecuted in the past? Because LDS and YFZ share a spritual ancester centuries back? Does anyone genuinely believe the YFZ is being persecuted on religious grounds when named presumed practices are also at play?

If you are true practicing LDS then your walk radiates the love of the Lord and you will be a shining example to your fellow man.
Then how do you think you'll be mistaken for a child molester?

Moreover, this thread reeks of contention and polarisation. Is that what you/we are about? I can understand us all wandering about in the dark shouting our own standpoints, after all, we don't have a direct line to God... oh wait! We DO have direct access to the truth if we are bold and honest enough to ask for it. I cannot imagine that each of us has truthfully sought their hearts and prayed for answers and all come back with different truths.

In closing, I hope, if anyone feels compelled to say a prayer on this, that they'll ask a blessing for these children while they're at it.

[Hemidakota]

If you are true practicing LDS then your walk radiates the love of the Lord and you will be a shining example to your fellow man.
Then how do you think you'll be mistaken for a child molester?

Absolutely.

I am bother when members in the church without authority from God or First Presidency, are more-or-less, become the 'tares' of the wheat field that can provide a greater damage within then the media can do on the outside.