Free Innocent FLDS Children Now!

[Fiannan]

Kamperfoelie, I am not sure the intent of your post -- is it based on the "You're either with us or against us" idea? I hope that is not what you are saying.

Did you read what I have said about laws? What are your comments on this? How about what rosie321 have said?

We live in a society that honors Hugh Hefner and glorifies his relationship to his "girlfriends" who are maybe 1/3rd. his age at best but if he married these women he'd be considered some sort of devil. Why is that?

[StrawberryFields]

Yes, I am interested in learning more about the polygamist people. I live in Utah and I often see polygamists families and couples. I don't see what draws people to this today. The thing that has me so intrigued is that I live among these people and I am a very friendly open person yet I have never really spoken to them. I know the outsiders of the group are 'dangerous' so I respect their space and let them go about their business.

Here is another link... (don't look MYDOGSKIP) about a different 'style', if you will, of polygamy.

Polygamy in America - MSN Lifestyle - Beauty & Style - Slideshow - 1

[Kamperfoelie]

fiannan, open your heart and you will agree my words speak for themselves. i will not let you twist my words around to be advocating polarisation, as you suggest I do.

I ask simply, and again, what are you motives. Lashing out is a result of fear, where lies the root of your terror? please look into yourself and answer honestly. my question IS my question and speaks for itself. links or arguments defining the shortcomings of other parties are not pertinent: i ask you now, to stand up and explain yourself.

[Fiannan]

Originally Posted by Kamperfoelie

fiannan, open your heart and you will agree my words speak for themselves. i will not let you twist my words around to be advocating polarisation, as you suggest I do.

I ask simply, and again, what are you motives. Lashing out is a result of fear, where lies the root of your terror? please look into yourself and answer honestly. my question IS my question and speaks for itself. links or arguments defining the shortcomings of other parties are not pertinent: i ask you now, to stand up and explain yourself.

Uh, what kind of fears do you suggest I have. I'm kinda spooked by spoders but once practiced some systematic desensitation exercises and they don't freak me out so bad anymore. Even ate a scorpion (a close relative of spiders) in China a while back.

So watcha want more than that? I think my posts in thie thread are quite comprehensive.

[Moksha]

Here is an interesting FLDS story:

The Cult That Wants My Kids

When Teressa Wall testified against polygamist “prophet” Warren Jeffs, she assumed there’d be payback. But how could she know they’d come after her children?

By Dorothy Allred Solomon

The Cult That Wants My Kids - Page1 -Â MSN Lifestyle - Mind, Body & Soul

[rosie321]

Moreover, this thread reeks of contention and polarisation. Is that what you/we are about? I can understand us all wandering about in the dark shouting our own standpoints, after all, we don't have a direct line to God... oh wait! We DO have direct access to the truth if we are bold and honest enough to ask for it. I cannot imagine that each of us has truthfully sought their hearts and prayed for answers and all come back with different truths.

And of course you are the only one bearing the truth here? If I don't see it the same way then you or others in the majority here I have it all wrong?

I recall the GA referring to the truth like an elephant. It being so huge depending on where you are at your perspective might be different. Just because that perspective may be different does not mean both cannot be true.

I resent others automatically assuming that because I question the norm that I have no testimony. The Lord knows my heart. I know He Loves me. I have experienced that closeness. I do not appreciate your judgement on this matter.

Just because I want to know the whole perimeter so guard can be maintained does not mean I am on the other side.

I have expressed concerns. I look at things very indepth and note details that others may overlook or be unconcerned about. One thing is for sure my concerns typically prove to be founded in the end.

Am I operating under fear or preparation? Perhaps time will tell. I could only wish that this were fearful rantings. However, I am concerned this case my have longlasting effects on our society.

I am preparing accordingly and am raising my concern to others just in case backlash occurs. It already is having some backlash on our faith. A number of people don't understand what LDS believe and how we are different. I am making sure I'm prepared and not with cliches only. I will not deny either that polygamy was practiced or may be practiced again in the future. It has been spoken out against by the Lords appointed for this time and that is respected and followed.

There are some issues here that need to be looked at honestly. Perhaps I have some fear of the consequences that will fall from this decision. We've already tried and convicted these FLDS members without a trial that others citizens are entitled to. There are so many associated factors that need to be considered too and have a devastating impact on our society.

There is no way you can convince me that the FLDS have been treated in the way they have soley to "save" their children.

In closing, I hope, if anyone feels compelled to say a prayer on this, that they'll ask a blessing for these children while they're at it.

I've been praying for them since the start. They are defineatly the ones suffering the worst from this whole situation. The FLDS are not the only ones to have allegedly abused these children imo. The trauma created by the states actions are grave and could create irreparable damage.

[Kamperfoelie]

Rosie,

Far be it from me to judge, and i apologise if it seems i have. throughout this thread i ve respected your comments -albeit that your view on the elephant is from a distinctly different angle-.

imho it seemed to me that members here were (paraphrasing here) implying that child molestation is not child molestation, and should be allowed on religious grounds, since its has also happened in the past, and is allowed to happen in muslim countries.

any attempts to adress this standpoint have not been answered other than exclamations misdirecting attention to entirely unrelated issues.
as above here, when i ask in no unclear terms to clarify why the abuse of children is being advocated so vehemently, im answered first 1) "why do you want to know? do you want to divide us?" and 2 "hey, i ve eaten a spider in china". Call me simple but neither seems relevant to me.

If i ask the time yet im told the weather, i dont see any dialog developing. As such i have done my best to be clear (and without judgement) if anyone chooses to misinterpret, it is by their own choice.

thank you for praying for these children.

[rosie321]

why the abuse of children is being advocated so vehemently

I do feel that I have advocated child abuse.

any attempts to adress this standpoint have not been answered other than exclamations misdirecting attention to entirely unrelated issues.

I believe the issues I have raised are related even if a few steps away.
This group has not been tried yet of their alleged crimes in court and yet publically they have already been tried and found guilty on the principles of polygamy and underage marrying. Some states and areas still allow marriages at these young ages and polygamy exists in areas.

I don't feel comfortable going along with the ideas that are being spoonfed by the media and leaked by state representatives. From the start this matter has set out to stir up issue and public controversy. Due to the circumstances I can't help but wonder if part of the reason was in the hope to link the LDS to it. Regardless of what the intent, it has happened and many people have questions. Most people equate FLDS with LDS and as stated in previous posts don't understand the differences and the whole we used to practice it but don't anymore. I believe that as LDS we need to understand this and get comfortable with it. Most members I've known would rather not touch it.

The crimes these people would be found guilty is the rape, torture, and unrighteous mind control of kids taking place. If they do not have this intent, are acting righteously according to their beliefs I have a much more difficult time with going after them. Polygamy and underage marriage do occur. I cannot find this group guilty just because I don't like their ways or because society changed the rules. Just because some polygamy groups have done really bad things gives me no right to judge all groups the same way. I have to wait for evidence I'm to believe someone's guilty. So far, at least publically, not much has not convinced me that it has reached to the level of abuse at this particular compound. The media has had every chance to throw the final nail in their coffin but haven't.

The way the state has handled this concerns me, especially if this group is guilty of such horrendous crimes. Being professionals, this should have been much better planned. They really need to look at the way they've operated.
From what the reports there was an official living there monitoring the situation. But there is no evidence? They didn't plan for the possibility for emergency placements before or the needs that would arise from a group such as this? Why have the children been living in a coliseum for 2+weeks? Why weren't they more sensitive to the needs of these children and families beforehand? Why the Baptist buses and not school buses? Why have no men been taken away? I 'm troubled by this.

With all the legal loopholes that exist these children may wind back up into an abusive environment. Sure they got these kids out for a time but what happens if they wind up back into it? Any good from removing them from an abusive environment would be lost and the kids could wind up worse because of it. The state could have just signed their spiritual and mental death warrants.

[Kamperfoelie]

thank you rosie.

again, you raise valid concerns and clearly from earnest interest. i would just like to reiterate that i did not question the pertinence of your posts.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Can anyone tell me if it is legal in any US state to marry at 14? I believe at one time it was legal in Texas.

If these people lived in a state where it was legal to marry at 16 and they married at 16 (even if the husband was 96) then it wouldn't be a crime would it? Just imagine a border town in a state where marriage at 16 is legal and no-one has broken the law by having a 16 year old wife, then the state boundaries are redrawn and they end up in the next state without actually moving and suddenly they are criminals and child molestors because their wives are under the legal age in that state. This is probably how it feels to the FLDS because at one time marrying at 14 was not illegal.

Then take the subject of polygamy and compare that to a man who has a wife and a mistress (or two) which is not uncommon. The latter is breaking no law and yet to the FLDS he is worse than then because they have their one legal marriage and subsequent 'spiritual marrriages'.