Free Innocent FLDS Children Now!

[Fiannan]

Okay, now let's get a few things straight for those who cannot see past the "The law is the law and morality and law are one and the same" viewpoint.

This is legal in the USA:



Inside Playboy Mansion with Hugh Hefner | NEWS.com.au

This isn't:



Peoples and Cultures: February 2006

Now if Mr. Hefner married all those girlfriends then he would be a polygamist and we all know polygamists are bad people, right?

[User-Removed]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Can anyone tell me if it is legal in any US state to marry at 14? I believe at one time it was legal in Texas.

If these people lived in a state where it was legal to marry at 16 and they married at 16 (even if the husband was 96) then it wouldn't be a crime would it? Just imagine a border town in a state where marriage at 16 is legal and no-one has broken the law by having a 16 year old wife, then the state boundaries are redrawn and they end up in the next state without actually moving and suddenly they are criminals and child molestors because their wives are under the legal age in that state. This is probably how it feels to the FLDS because at one time marrying at 14 was not illegal.

Then take the subject of polygamy and compare that to a man who has a wife and a mistress (or two) which is not uncommon. The latter is breaking no law and yet to the FLDS he is worse than then because they have their one legal marriage and subsequent 'spiritual marrriages'.

Willow...There are several prospectives here that must be addressed.

There are over, at least at last count 200 different "groups" who practice polygamy in the States. You're free to google the term and you'll be amazed at the number of sites that'll pop up.

When one engages in polygamy...the issue isn't at what age can you legally marry someone. Most polygamists usually only have ONE wife, legally and lawfully married to them...IF they even abide by the marriage statutes in the sate they reside. (There is a huge controversy within the states as to the morality of the State issuing marriage licenses...sadly I know several LDS who've faced discipinary actions, cause they refused to get a county marriage license)

Additionally, when the State decides to prosecute a polygamist...it's rarely for polygamy due to the fact that there have been at least one Supreme Court decision calling into question the legality of anti polygamy laws. Additionally, as with most polygamist sects, wifes are usually married off in "spiritual" settings...not legal. If you only have ONE marriage license...but 12 spirit wives...are you legally a polygamist????

Now...The state is free to prosecute a polygamist under various bigamy statutes, except they usually run into a couple of problems there. First, bigamy requires deception and fraud; most of these women know straight forward what's up. If I call Sir Richard and fly over to the UK and woo...and marry you, and sometime later you discover I've got a wife and family in the States...I'm a bigamist. If on the other hand...my first wife takes a shining to you and says yes...there's no bigamy

What separates the Jeffs Cult from the pack is this: UNDERAGE BRIDES. To the best of my knowledge the Jeffs Cult is the only operating polygamist sect to allow underaged women to be maried off.

I was recently listening to a lawyer, who specializes in polygamy on NPR...he stated that most of his clients expressly forbid underage marriages, and will expel members who engage in such behavior.

Try this link to listen to the program:


Report of Abuse Prompts Raid of Polygamous Ranch : NPR



Talk of the Nation, April 10, 2008 · A 16-year-old girl associated with the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints called a family violence hotline to report sexual abuse by her 50-year-old husband. The call triggered a raid in which hundreds of women and children were removed from a polygamous compound in Eldorado, Texas.

John Mac Cormack, a reporter for the San Antonio News Express gives an update on the latest in the case, and Ken Driggs, an Atlanta attorney, discusses the legal history of polygamy.


I have known a few polygamous families over the years. When I was in Grad School at the U, we lived on Little Cottonwood Lane...right down the street from the Alta Colony. Warren Jeffs nephew and my son played ball together in high school. BTW, when Rulon passed away, Warren ousted his brother from the cult...his nephew has a multi-million dollar judgement against his Uncle. In court papers he alleged that Warren would routinely sodomize him and other young boys. This kind of deviant behavior is well known in the Little Cottonwood, Alta area.

I've been constantly amazed at the level of sympathy Jeffs has received here on a supposedly LDS website.

As I've watched this issue unfold....Gentile routinely condemn Jeffs...while many so called Latter Day Saints defend and weep for his plight...

[john doe]

Fiannan, you know by now that polygamy is not the issue. I know you keep trying to make it the issue, by it isn't. The issue is the forcible giving and taking of underage girls, 'spiritually', physically, and sexually. And the expectation given to the young children produced that they will do the same when they turn 13 or even 14. That is what is wrong here. If it was just a bunch of people over 18 claiming to be 'spiritually married', or sleeping together, it would be a nonissue. Bringing in Hef and his girlfriends is a strawman argument.

[User-Removed]

Originally Posted by Fiannan

Okay, now let's get a few things straight for those who cannot see past the "The law is the law and morality and law are one and the same" viewpoint.

This is legal in the USA:



Inside Playboy Mansion with Hugh Hefner | NEWS.com.au

This isn't:



Peoples and Cultures: February 2006

Now if Mr. Hefner married all those girlfriends then he would be a polygamist and we all know polygamists are bad people, right?

Actually...Finnian...you're correct...but not correct..bwhahahahaha (my years of producing talk radio have paid off)

Regardless of Hugh's sexual appetite...or libertine out look on life...what separates Hugh from Uncle Warren??????

Hugh prefers his women...Blonde, Buxom, willing AND...OVER 18

Uncle Warren liked em...young, dump, abused and in most cases related to him....

I'm going to make a snap assumtion here...and YES...I know what happens when you assume...

I'm going to assume, that you're a fairly recent convert to the Church...and from your view of Psychology...you might have at one time in your life, held L. Ron Hubbard in high esteem....bwahahahahahaha...Just messin wid ya....

[BusyMom]

I am saddened in all the postings here no one has discussed the future implications of childhood sexual abuse on these children. Women who have experienced childhood sexual abuse are: More likely to use substances in an addictive manner (alcohol, prescription drugs, illegal drugs) as an attempt to numb their pain, an increased risk for suicide, an increased risk of psychologica/mental health issues, increased risk of eating disorders, and an increased risk of marrying an abuser because of her own vulneranbility and thus perpetrating the risk of abuse to her own children (Most often, UNKNOWINGLY!!). As children, these kids suffer tremendous emotional pain that may cause them to have severe behavioral problems, they tend to get poor grades in school limiting their future success, and they have poor social interactions with peers and adults because they have no trust in anyone.

How could we not intervene? Should we allow this to go on for more generations subjecting these children to these horrific consequences? I am sorry but NO WAY!!! NO WAY!!! Intervening quickly and appropriately tends to prevent the abuse for at least 3 generations...time to change patterns and family dynamics. I am sorry but if I am stand on any side of this, it is to protect these children and to save future generations from horrific abuse.

I am so amazed that in all the political chatter, no one stopped to consider the traumatic consequences of sexual abuse on these young girls. Yes, separation is traumatic and I certainly believe that the state of Texas should have been more thoughtful about how they would handle this enormous amount ofchildren. I can not condone, however, leaving the children in that situation for even one more minute! I hope that everyone prays that these children get the help and support they need for a productive and healthy future. Please pray for these mothers that they are able to get the help they need to become strong and sufficient enough to stand up for their children and to protect them at all costs.

Busy Mom

[Maya]

Well fact I am still missing the facts... HOW many under 16 girls were pregnant? Names and agesand children? How many were abused and by whom? How many wemen were abused? How many of the boys were abused? How many of the men were abused?? When where and how ?? OR is this only rumor?? How much is true how much is exaggerating and panic??
Obviosly something has happened, but what? I doubt we ever get the whole truth. But why worry God will punish those that have done wrong.... also those that accuse people without reason.

[BusyMom]

Most recently:
"
"CPS had identified 25 minor females who had represented themselves as adults." I don't know how many of the women were married when they were minors, maybe we will get a little bit better picture as the trial proceeds but I am not sure we will ever have the full story. It will be harder to get the stories of abuse, if it occurred, from the boys and to prove it. Unfortunately, sexual abuse is very hard to prove through physical evidence. The pregnancies are probably the best "hard" evidence and the DNA testing to determine paternity.

Busy Mom

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by MyDogSkip

Hugh prefers his women...Blonde, Buxom, willing AND...OVER 18

Uncle Warren liked em...young, dump, abused and in most cases related to him.....

There is definately a certain saddness in the truth of this observation.

...you might have at one time in your life, held L. Ron Hubbard in high esteem....bwahahahahahaha...Just messin wid ya...

Mitt Romney's favorite author (outside the Bible, of course).

[WillowTheWhisp]

Thanks MyDogSkip. That puts things into better perspective.

Originally Posted by Mailis

Well fact I am still missing the facts... HOW many under 16 girls were pregnant? Names and agesand children? How many were abused and by whom? How many wemen were abused? How many of the boys were abused? How many of the men were abused?? When where and how ?? OR is this only rumor?? How much is true how much is exaggerating and panic??
Obviosly something has happened, but what? I doubt we ever get the whole truth. But why worry God will punish those that have done wrong.... also those that accuse people without reason.

This is the sort of thing I have been wondering. Is it the common practice in that community to marry and/or abuse 14 year old girls or was the one teenager who phoned an exception?

I certainly agree that issue needed to be tackled but the way this has been done without any apparent forward planning just doesn't seem to have taken the well-being of the children, once removed, into consideration.

[kona0197]

Mitt Romney's favorite author (outside the Bible, of course).

Not cool.