Free Innocent FLDS Children Now!

[User-Removed]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

hamfisted

bwahahahahaha...Here in the States, I've heard the expression "Hamhanded"...I really need to look it up...Hamfisted...I like that!!!!

[Fiannan]

Skip, I happen to have 4 daughters -- how many do you have?

You know what I find ironic? In many states a 15 year old can have an abortion without a parent's contact or consent. In many states a 15 year old can get married, but my understanding is that they need parental consent for that. So you have the right to make a life and death decision that can affect you for the rest of your life (abortion) and you can do that without your parent's permission -- but then again, you can't get your navel pierced. Can you explain this?

And I believe that every marriage in the FLDS Church does have parental consent take place if the woman is under 18 -- or do you have any contradictory information?

Another thing, there have been legislators who have read studies that pretty much show that the typical 14, 15 or 16 year old who gets pregnant in the USA is getting impregnated by a man who is much older -- at least of adult age. Now why do you suppose that certain abortion advocacy groups are against enfoecement of laws to question these females to find out if a statuatory rape charge needs to be filed? I'll bet that over 90% of the men in the US who knock up a young teen have no desire to put a wedding ring on her finger and take the ultimate responsibility yet if a member of the FLDS marries a female who is, let's say, 16 he's a monster even though he is making an ETERNAL commitment to her and her children.

No Skip, I don't condone everything Mr. Jeffs does but neither do I condone a hypocritical society or a state agency trampling over the constitution as well as displaying obvious hypocracy.

[User-Removed]

Originally Posted by Fiannan

Skip, I happen to have 4 daughters -- how many do you have?

You know what I find ironic? In many states a 15 year old can have an abortion without a parent's contact or consent. In many states a 15 year old can get married, but my understanding is that they need parental consent for that. So you have the right to make a life and death decision that can affect you for the rest of your life (abortion) and you can do that without your parent's permission -- but then again, you can't get your navel pierced. Can you explain this?

And I believe that every marriage in the FLDS Church does have parental consent take place if the woman is under 18 -- or do you have any contradictory information?

Another thing, there have been legislators who have read studies that pretty much show that the typical 14, 15 or 16 year old who gets pregnant in the USA is getting impregnated by a man who is much older -- at least of adult age. Now why do you suppose that certain abortion advocacy groups are against enfoecement of laws to question these females to find out if a statuatory rape charge needs to be filed? I'll bet that over 90% of the men in the US who knock up a young teen have no desire to put a wedding ring on her finger and take the ultimate responsibility yet if a member of the FLDS marries a female who is, let's say, 16 he's a monster even though he is making an ETERNAL commitment to her and her children.

No Skip, I don't condone everything Mr. Jeffs does but neither do I condone a hypocritical society or a state agency trampling over the constitution as well as displaying obvious hypocracy.

WOW...Four eh????...I'm blessed, I only had to rear one daughter, and I pray pity on the fool who marries her...bwahahahahahaha...One daughter was a challenge....Four would have put me on prozac...I tip my hat to you. Luckily we got through the 15 going on 25 stage...and as I look back on it, I'm grateful that both of my children came of age before the advent of the PC. Altough...I now find that I've turned into "Daddy ATM".<vbg>

As for the Jeffs Cult...sadly you are condoning everything they do. The point isn't about age, race or whatever. Sadly, young girls get pregnant out of wedlock everyday. I'm really quite shockedat the cavaler attitude young people have today over birtch control...and their view that unwanted pregnancies only happen to someone else. Better yet...I love the mantra..."We only did it once."

The difference between the real world and the Jeffs Cult is this...Women are commodities to them. Girls/women are reared in the Jeffs Cult to be seminal recepticals for old men. Jeffs, when he was a free man...routinely ousted the "young studs" in his cult...why???
Cause they were competition for the old men. Girls are raised like farm animals in the Jeffs Cult.

The more you attempt to scorn the state...the more you embrace Jeffs and his evil.

[Hemidakota]

The positive note, the church lawyers and other churches are looking at this case.

[rosie321]

You didn't catch her point, did you? I believe her point was that our society sees nothing wrong with the continued trend to sexualize young people yet at the same time sees these young people as children who lack the maturity to take on the responsibility of marriage and family.

Know what that means Skip? That means we are in a sense projecting a fetish towards young girls in the name of money. That's right, create an image of nauty, immature sexuality coupled with innocent naivity -- a child's brain kept captive in a barely adult body. Look, buy the product society allows to be associated with this not-adult, no-longer-child, entity -- but remember, she is not old enough to accept any adult responsibility. So doesn't society then make her a prisoner -- an object?

Who then really has the higher regard for the teen female -- our society trapped in adolescent worship or the FLDS who, like many billions of people in the world today, live in a culture that accepts marriage in the teen years?

Again, I am not advocating young teen marriage but you certainly won't find anything in the scriptures to condemn it.

Thank you. You got my point! The same society that is condemning these people for their lifestyle routinely ignores the evidence of other abuses going on.

They don't even have to look far for the evidence nor do they need to trample on peoples rights to get the evidence. Let's be honest for a moment. Saving these kids was not the only thing that the State of Texas was interested in.

[User-Removed]

Originally Posted by rosie321

Thank you. You got my point! The same society that is condemning these people for their lifestyle routinely ignores the evidence of other abuses going on.

They don't even have to look far for the evidence nor do they need to trample on peoples rights to get the evidence. Let's be honest for a moment. Saving these kids was not the only thing that the State of Texas was interested in.

No actually Rosie...you're both WRONG. There are many examples of folks decrying the "lifestyle abuses" you two use as a ruse to condone what the Jeffs Cult does.

Talk Radio is full of shows where they decry what society is doing. Michael Medved easily comes to mind...as does that charlitan Dr. Laura...and let's not forget Dr. Phil...or even Oprah and her work with girls.

Again...you seek to justify the sins of the Jeffs Cult...by using the sins of the world...slippery slope....

[rosie321]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I'm female.

I have daughters.

I am not a supporter of young teen pregancy or young teen marriage.

But neither am I a supporter of the hamfisted way the state of Texas has gone about 'rescuing' people who may or may not have needed rescuing any more than I need rescuing from being LDS despite what some of my friends once thought.

How many children really factually have been proved to have been abused?

Just because their lifestyle is different that doesn't make it abusive. They might consider the cavalier way some people outside of their religion treat children to be far more abusive. The Amish live a different lifestyle.Their children have no contact with modern technology. Do we 'rescue' them next?

Great post!

Who is next in our societal crusade? How many constitutional rights should be ignored for the best interests of the children?

Finnian great point. If children can get abortions at young ages without parental consent then why are we so upset that they can get married?

Reports continue to filter, of more and more signs of physical abuse of many of these youngsters...yet way too many "socalled LDS" would rather whine about a publicity stunt designed to bring in tons of dinero for Disney...while engaging in some kind of faux defense of the Jeffs Cult.

When the state and media finally gets their facts straight I might be more prone to take their side. The facts change daily.

Its hard to trust someone when they have "dirty hands." I find myself questioning both sides when I see "dirty hands".

Its very clear what Disney did though. They came one step short of prostituting a young girl. I don't think Disney should get lots of money for that. Young stars are prostituted all the time. Most times they make their name and money from provocative nude pictures or sexual acts. The money and noteriety stays only for a time and then these kids are thrown out. The result is many wind up in drugs or other such things. Young lives are destroyed on a routine basis there and no one cares. It's unfortunate in the case of Miley since she had built herself on a wholesome character.

These agents and parents of these stars are setting their children up as role models for every young child. At least the FLDS stayed to themselves and committed themselves one another.

Their motives had more purity to them then just plan greed and lust.

[lostnfound]

Originally Posted by Teancum18

This post is really going to anger some members of the Church. So let my disclaimer be this: if this post upsets you, please, please, at least give some time to collect your thoughts before you reply.

On the topic of polygamy. I wouldn't be surprised if Joseph Smith made a mistake. WAIT!!! Hear me out before you jump to conclusions. According to records by both Joseph Smith and Lucy Mack Smith, Joseph had put off polygamy for quite some time until an angel appeared to him and said, "Either implement polygamy now, or I will strike you down where you stand." (basically in those words) That was when Joseph finally started doing it. Once it was implemented, here's what happened.

Joseph and Emma were heard arguing one day outside of their house. Emma was basically saying something to the effect of, "We take these woman in to our house and you're bedding with them? Get out, now!!" (This is according to scattered records of members of the church from that time)

Joseph said one way you could always know if an angel has appeared to you, or if an evil spirit is trying to trick you, is to offer your hand. And evil spirit will try to shake, but will not be able to because it does not have a body. An angel will refuse to shake because it is of a higher being, Anyway, I wonder if Joseph forgot to do his little test on that angel who threatened to strike him down. Maybe an evil spirit got in there and tricked the prophet into thinking polygamy truly did come from Heavenly Father.

This next part might really support that. In one of the original copies of the early Doctrine and Covenants (back when it wasn't known as the D&C yet), there were words taken out of one of the sections by the church. The words were of Christ saying, "I reproach my church for practicing polygamy and adultery." Obviously, that had to be taken out because of D&C 132.

So the big point I am coming to is this: Joseph may have made a mistake, which if he did, great!! It would mean a couple of things if he did make a mistake:

1) Despite being a prophet of God, he was still human.
2) There is a very good chance polygamy would never come back.
3) Obviously the church is true, because if it wasn't, why would Satan waste his time tricking the prophet into something like this?
4) It clears up more issues than it creates.

I am not saying Joseph DID make a mistake. I don't know. However, it would strengthen my testimony if he did. Not only for the reasons I mentioned, but for others that I'd prefer to discuss in private.

People who are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints should approach the topic of polygamy very delicately. If Joseph did not make a mistake, than Heavenly Father has His reasons (Isaiah 55:8-9). If he did make a mistake, it actually strengthens the image of our church a lot more than it could hurt it.

A true prophet is 100% accurate is all I have to say to that..but I am curious to one thing though wouldn't you think that Jesus would have practiced it if it was important

[lostnfound]

Originally Posted by Teancum18

This post is really going to anger some members of the Church. So let my disclaimer be this: if this post upsets you, please, please, at least give some time to collect your thoughts before you reply.

On the topic of polygamy. I wouldn't be surprised if Joseph Smith made a mistake. WAIT!!! Hear me out before you jump to conclusions. According to records by both Joseph Smith and Lucy Mack Smith, Joseph had put off polygamy for quite some time until an angel appeared to him and said, "Either implement polygamy now, or I will strike you down where you stand." (basically in those words) That was when Joseph finally started doing it. Once it was implemented, here's what happened.

Joseph and Emma were heard arguing one day outside of their house. Emma was basically saying something to the effect of, "We take these woman in to our house and you're bedding with them? Get out, now!!" (This is according to scattered records of members of the church from that time)

Joseph said one way you could always know if an angel has appeared to you, or if an evil spirit is trying to trick you, is to offer your hand. And evil spirit will try to shake, but will not be able to because it does not have a body. An angel will refuse to shake because it is of a higher being, Anyway, I wonder if Joseph forgot to do his little test on that angel who threatened to strike him down. Maybe an evil spirit got in there and tricked the prophet into thinking polygamy truly did come from Heavenly Father.

This next part might really support that. In one of the original copies of the early Doctrine and Covenants (back when it wasn't known as the D&C yet), there were words taken out of one of the sections by the church. The words were of Christ saying, "I reproach my church for practicing polygamy and adultery." Obviously, that had to be taken out because of D&C 132.

So the big point I am coming to is this: Joseph may have made a mistake, which if he did, great!! It would mean a couple of things if he did make a mistake:

1) Despite being a prophet of God, he was still human.
2) There is a very good chance polygamy would never come back.
3) Obviously the church is true, because if it wasn't, why would Satan waste his time tricking the prophet into something like this?
4) It clears up more issues than it creates.

I am not saying Joseph DID make a mistake. I don't know. However, it would strengthen my testimony if he did. Not only for the reasons I mentioned, but for others that I'd prefer to discuss in private.

People who are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints should approach the topic of polygamy very delicately. If Joseph did not make a mistake, than Heavenly Father has His reasons (Isaiah 55:8-9). If he did make a mistake, it actually strengthens the image of our church a lot more than it could hurt it.

Also where did joseph get his idea of how to test the spirits? Where is that in the bible? I have never read about any test like that from any of the true prophets of the bible??!!!
Satan can come as an angel of light. He was an fallen angel remember.

[Canuck Mormon]

Originally Posted by lostnfound

Also where did joseph get his idea of how to test the spirits? Where is that in the bible? I have never read about any test like that from any of the true prophets of the bible??!!!
Satan can come as an angel of light. He was an fallen angel remember.

Originally Posted by lostnfound

A true prophet is 100% accurate is all I have to say to that..but I am curious to one thing though wouldn't you think that Jesus would have practiced it if it was important

Please start another thread with these questions so as the thread will not be derailed. Thank you.