Dan Rather, Apologist

[Matt]

Bush isn't running on his military record,

Quite. He isn't. Why? Because he dosn't have one.

The National Guard is a fine military force. In many respects it is like the British Territorial Army. What is questioned is how people like G W Bush used it to hide from Vietnam.

By the way, you might be interested to know that there are Territorial Army SAS units, and they do see active service on covert missions. There is also a Royal Marine version of the TA, I believe they have SBS units, too.

[john doe]

QUOTE]Bush isn't running on his military record,

Quite. He isn't. Why? Because he dosn't have one.
[/QUOTE]

Well,for a man without a record, the Demoncraps sure seem to be trying to beat him up for nothing then, aren't they?

Were you even alive during that time? Do you have any background in what was happening in America at the time? As far as that goes, the only reason Kerry volunteered for swift boats was because he thought they would see no action, either. It wasn't until after he enlisted that swift boats were ordered closer to the war. Most people of draftable age during that time did what they could to ensure their safety from combat duty. Two of my brothers volunteered to avoid being drafted as ground-pounders. My mother prayed every day that my brothers would not be assigned to combat duty there. Does that make her or them as bad as Bush or Kerry? It amazes me that the same people who are upset at GWB for enlisting in the Texas ANG with the charge that he did so to avoid action are willing defend Bill Clinton for his draft-dodging tactics. Demos have no moral high ground when it comes to avoiding combat action in Viet Nam.

[/QUOTE]By the way, you might be interested to know that there are Territorial Army SAS units, and they do see active service on covert missions. There is also a Royal Marine version of the TA, I believe they have SBS units, too.[quote]

Bully for them. It may interest you to know that many of the American soldiers in Iraq on active duty today are reservists and National Guard.

[srm]

Originally posted by Faerie@Sep 15 2004, 05:33 PM
I wonder how the National Guardsmen of today feel when people insult the NG so much?

exacatacally

[srm]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Sep 15 2004, 07:44 PM
Matt --

I know it's unfashionable to consider John Kerry anything but Audie Murphy reincarnate, but it sure looks to me as if, patriot though he may well be, Kerry's four months in Vietnam were basically an exercise in resume-padding in an age where military service was pretty much considered mandatory for aspiring politicians. Plus Kerry only joined the Naval Reserves after his application for a draft deferment was rejected: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../ixnewstop.html

By his own specific admission, Kerry volunteered for SWIFT boat duty when the boats were being used for low-risk coastal patrols because he didn't want to get too involved in Vietnam. When Admiral Zumwalt implemented Operation Sea Lords and sent the Swifties up the rivers, where they might actually get shot at, Kerry obtained three Purple Hearts in short order for superficial wounds and bailed out.

You don't have to swallow everything Kerry's fellow Swifties allege (I think they overreach in some of their charges, although the Cambodia one looks pretty irrefutable) to get the impression that Kerry's service, while honorable enough as far as it went (getting shot at takes real courage even if you're missed), doesn't quite match up with his self-cultivated image. I don't think it's irrational for his fellow veterans, many of whom got seriously hurt and stayed in the fight far longer than Kerry did, to be a little annoyed at this poser, especially considering how he traded on his comparatively minor service to tar them as latter-day Genghis Khans.

But we're changing the subject on a subject that isn't much of a subject anyway. (Ask President Dole whether the guy with the better wartime biography always wins the election.) The point is that CBS fell for a forgery. (Michael Moore, if CBS were a conservative outfit, would be screaming CBS LIEEDDD!!!, since everyone knows that falsity alone is enough to establish intentional deceit.) </sarcasm> And now CBS is defending itself with a defense that's silly even in a religious context, let alone a secular one.

But we're changing the subject on a subject that isn't much of a subject anyway. (Ask President Dole whether the guy with the better wartime biography always wins the election.)

Or George Sr. vs Clinton...

Or how about Gore the only private with body guards?

[Outshined]

Originally posted by john doe@Sep 18 2004, 05:49 PM
Bully for them. It may interest you to know that many of the American soldiers in Iraq on active duty today are reservists and National Guard.

I can attest to that! I leave for desert training October 1st, which I hope does not mean that I'm in for a third tour of Iraq.

Afghanistan might be nice...

[Cal]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Sep 15 2004, 07:44 PM
Matt --

I know it's unfashionable to consider John Kerry anything but Audie Murphy reincarnate, but it sure looks to me as if, patriot though he may well be, Kerry's four months in Vietnam were basically an exercise in resume-padding in an age where military service was pretty much considered mandatory for aspiring politicians. Plus Kerry only joined the Naval Reserves after his application for a draft deferment was rejected: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../ixnewstop.html

By his own specific admission, Kerry volunteered for SWIFT boat duty when the boats were being used for low-risk coastal patrols because he didn't want to get too involved in Vietnam. When Admiral Zumwalt implemented Operation Sea Lords and sent the Swifties up the rivers, where they might actually get shot at, Kerry obtained three Purple Hearts in short order for superficial wounds and bailed out.

You don't have to swallow everything Kerry's fellow Swifties allege (I think they overreach in some of their charges, although the Cambodia one looks pretty irrefutable) to get the impression that Kerry's service, while honorable enough as far as it went (getting shot at takes real courage even if you're missed), doesn't quite match up with his self-cultivated image. I don't think it's irrational for his fellow veterans, many of whom got seriously hurt and stayed in the fight far longer than Kerry did, to be a little annoyed at this poser, especially considering how he traded on his comparatively minor service to tar them as latter-day Genghis Khans.

But we're changing the subject on a subject that isn't much of a subject anyway. (Ask President Dole whether the guy with the better wartime biography always wins the election.) The point is that CBS fell for a forgery. (Michael Moore, if CBS were a conservative outfit, would be screaming CBS LIEEDDD!!!, since everyone knows that falsity alone is enough to establish intentional deceit.) </sarcasm> And now CBS is defending itself with a defense that's silly even in a religious context, let alone a secular one.

Hey PD,

I wonder if you would be slamming CBS if what it were claiming were complimentary to Bush?

A couple of other observations:

Why make a deal about why Karey went to Vietnam? The issue is not why he went as much as what he did when he was there. On that point, there is no doubt that he performed admirably. What I do find outrageous is how SOME republicans have tried to say that the military didn't know what it was doing when it gave him those medals. What an INSULT to all the decorated soldiers in ALL of our military conflicts! Such a claim spits on ALL of our soldiers by saying that the medals they got were given by an organization that doesn't know what it is doing.

The fact of the matter is, Karey served, and did so admirably. Bush sat around on his fat ###### and did nothing.

[Dravin]

Such a claim spits on ALL of our soldiers by saying that the medals they got were given by an organization that doesn't know what it is doing.

How does one flow logically from, “The military sometimes gives out unwarranted medals.” to “The military only gives out unwarranted medals?”

[john doe]

Why make a deal about why Karey went to Vietnam?

The fact of the matter is, Karey served

Who is this Kary guy you keep talking about? We are talking about John Kerry in this context, not some other guy named Kary. The one we are talking about shot a kid in the back as he ran away, then he came home and told everyone who would listen that his comrades were all war criminals.

And the only reason anyone is talking about this is that he is basing his campaign on his military record. He INVITED the scrutiny when he turned the spotlight on his own military record. Are we to only look at the parts he wants us to see? And just when will Kerry ask the Pentagon to release ALL of his military records, not just the selected ones he chooses to show? GWB has ordered them Pentagon to show all they have on him, why can't Kerry do the same?

[Matt]

The fact of the matter is, Karey served


Who is this Kary guy you keep talking about?

Well, gee John, Doe, that went really smoothly, hah?

Mocking someone's typographical error by making one of your own!

But don't worry. Maybe nobody'll notice!

[Matt]

John Doe, I am older than you, so, yeah, I was alive then.

And some British people took part in the Vietnam war. With Australian and American forces.

I am aware that some NG and reservists are in Iraq. As are TA volunteers, also.