What makes our church so bad ?

jimuk · #1 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 06:08 AM

I sit and i ponder, i try to understand, i Just want to know what is so bad about our church, what do we do that makes folk from other denominations seem to dislike or even hate us so much.
We try our hardest to please our father in heaven, we try to walk the path that Jesus walked, we do our best to keep the commandments, we love our brothers and sisters no matter what religion they belong to, we have love for our families, and we really do not hurt anybody intentionally/knowingly.

Is it that we do not have our children baptized until they have some idea of what is happening to them. (Not so bad is it) Heavenly father is a just and loving father.

Is it because we believe in a living prophet who does his very best to guide us and council us as to what our father in heaven would have us do instead of leaving us wandering in the wilderness, not knowing which way to go. (So reassuring to know we are not alone) would you not want what is good for your children, god is our father and wants what is best for all of us, he will guide us if we allow him to.

What is it, i really want to know, please don't use the old reason "its because of the trinity", This would not stop the people of the church being a good and loving people.

We love you all as Jesus does, please show us that same love and respect, as Jesus did command us " ALL " to do.
If you are a true christian then you know that what i am saying is the truth.

.

MarginOfError · #2 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Is it that we do not have our children baptized until they have some idea of what is happening to them. (Not so bad is it) Heavenly father is a just and loving father.

Is it because we believe in a living prophet who does his very best to guide us and council us as to what our father in heaven would have us do instead of leaving us wandering in the wilderness, not knowing which way to go. (So reassuring to know we are not alone) would you not want what is good for your children, god is our father and wants what is best for all of us, he will guide us if we allow him to.

Could it be that when we talk about their beliefs we phrase it in such a way that is demeaning and diminutive of the things they hold sacred? Or does that fact just mean that we really aren't much better than they are?

jimuk · #3 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 06:56 AM

Hi margin, i take it that the " demeaning " you are talking about are the points you have highlighted.

" until they have some idea of what is happening to them "

This is not demeaning, this is what i would want for my children, nothing to do with what other religious groups would want for theirs.

" Instead of leaving us wandering in the wilderness, not knowing which way to go "

Again how is this demeaning, i personally would feel that " i brought my children into this world so its my duty as a parent to guide them as best i can through it. I am sorry if these statements sound demeaning, they are not meant to be.

Brenton · #4 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 06:59 AM

I think it's simple, really.
Some people just wont accept open canon of scripture.
Ofcourse, it's probably quite more deep and diverse than that, but I truly scratched the surface.
All religions endure it though.

lilered · #5 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimuk

I sit and i ponder, i try to understand, i Just want to know what is so bad about our church, what do we do that makes folk from other denominations seem to dislike or even hate us so much.

While our beliefs mirror many of those held by other Christian churchs, there are many differences. Example: Gospel Plan, Trinity, Kindgdoms of Glory

We try our hardest to please our father in heaven, we try to walk the path that Jesus walked, we do our best to keep the commandments, we love our brothers and sisters no matter what religion they belong to, we have love for our families, and we really do not hurt anybody intentionally/knowingly.

Most critics of the church it seems to me are not interested in these qualities, they are however quick to make issues out of the history of polygamy, labeling us as cults, or disagree with modern prophets as leaders.

Is it that we do not have our children baptized until they have some idea of what is happening to them. (Not so bad is it) Heavenly father is a just and loving father.

Our method of baptism (immersion) is called into question as well, some sprinkle, others pour, and certaintly the age of accoutability differ.

Is it because we believe in a living prophet who does his very best to guide us and council us as to what our father in heaven would have us do instead of leaving us wandering in the wilderness, not knowing which way to go. (So reassuring to know we are not alone) would you not want what is good for your children, god is our father and wants what is best for all of us, he will guide us if we allow him to.
Living prophets are a hard sell to differing Christian religions, they do not see the need of them after Christs ascension.

What is it, i really want to know, please don't use the old reason "its because of the trinity", This would not stop the people of the church being a good and loving people.

The trinty is ceraintly one issue that seperates us from other Christian churchs. Most anti-mormons are not looking for positive/good when they examine our doctorine, they are looking for negative. Some who critize the most, are former members who left the church either of their own free will or have been excommunicated

We love you all as Jesus does, please show us that same love and respect, as Jesus did command us " ALL " to do.
If you are a true christian then you know that what i am saying is the truth.

.

Amen

jimuk · #6 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 07:35 AM

lilered, But these people say we are not Christian and then proceed to act themselves in such an unchristian way towards us lol.
We welcome any and everyone to come into our meeting houses, will our hearts ever be at piece.
We are a peculiar people indeed, we DO love those that would seek to harm and despise us.
We truly do have a great Teacher in Jesus.

MarginOfError · #7 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 07:43 AM

The intent of my comments was 1) we are no better at not demonizing other religions than those you claim demonize us, and 2) the demonization occurs because we interpret other's beliefs using a self-referential lens.

I will concede that perhaps your comments do not qualify as demeaning, but they are diminutive in that you've effectively ignored the rationale for a belief in infant baptism or the absence of modern day prophets. You are adamantly opposed to their conclusions, but you fail to recognize that it is not their conclusion that is incorrect, but their conjecture. This is the same error others make in attacking our beliefs. Yet, surprisingly, if you truly study and come to an understanding of the foundation of another religion's creeds, you find that their conclusions are all very logical.

So, before you go saying things like, "why do they ridicule us for waiting to baptize our children until they have a clue about life" -- and thereby showing great insensitivity and intolerance toward their belief -- perhaps you should investigate why they believe we should baptize our children earlier.

For the record, if others showed our religion the same courtesy, we wouldn't have to talk about this nonsense.

jimuk · #8 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 07:54 AM

Then please feel free to go read another thread, i do not need to study any other religion as i may not be as strong as you in my own, and it might just sway me from it.
It is obvious you are looking to turn what was started with sincerity and with no malice what so ever into an argument, and i will not go down that road sorry
Please do not judge me it is not your Job, i leave that up to heavenly father.
So back to those that are truly interested in this thread.

MarginOfError · #9 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 07:58 AM

Gwen · #10 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 08:21 AM

i think there are many reasons someone might not think the best of us but i think in the end if i had to pick just one thing i'd say it comes down to being saved by grace vs. works. other christian faiths (as best i can understand it) see works as something that happen as evidence of their faith, but not a required. grace is the emphasized doctrine. in my opinion when you live by grace you tend to be more understanding of your own imperfections. we insist that works are required. that's a huge gap in and of itself. but when you hold that standard there is more focus on justice than mercy. we have very exact doctrines that hold us to a very high standard. much isn't in theory but is spelled out. therefore i think our imperfections as a ppl are more evident, we take it harder on ouselves as do others see it more obviously. therefore our actions as a ppl and our doctrines as a religion often fall short. we can't live up to what is expected, we will always fall short because we do belive in perfection. grace alone will not do it. if looked at it the wrong way could make us look like pretty big hypocrites.

another complaint i've heard, probably along the lines of moe's thinking, is that when we talk about our faith we are convinced we have more truth than other christian faiths. it doesn't usually go over well when someone starts off, well your church is nice and all but it's not all the truth, your baptisim is invalid due to lack of authority, and your marriage is pretend (yes i've heard members refer to a non temple marriage as pretend), or you don't have to work as hard in your marriage cause it's going to end anyway (yes i've heard this one from members too, as if the marriage covenant isn't as ligitamate). if i took that approach not sure i'd want to listen to me either. when you are convinced you are more right than another and then you fall short of living your own beliefs it's a huge turn off.

as for how welcome everyone is in our church or how christlike we are vs. some others that may attack us.......probably a good example of the above issue. our doctrines teach that, so do theirs. just like "them" "we" fall short of living our doctrines. there are cases where ppl have not been welcome. if you would like the church to be judged on it's doctrines not how perfectly you live them (i know i'd like that) then we must extend the same curtousy, judge their faith based on the doctrines not the ppl that live them (especially not the radicals).

and then there are those that will just hate us cause they can. has nothing to do with personal beliefs or anything anyone has done to offend them. they will take everything they can and twist it to make us look bad. there is no reason and doesn't have to be, that's kinda the point of such hate. we aren't the only group that happens to. that kind of thing you have to ignore. focus on the important stuff, don't give them more importance than they deserve.