Why The Book of Mormon couldn't have taken place in North America

[livy111us]

I like Rod, he is a nice guy (to me at least), and I like him. But what would you prefer FAIR do? Say there was a member of your congregation/ward who did not have the expertise to speak on ancient Hebrew inscriptions, had no formal training, but taught all over the US something about these Hebrew inscriptions that were blatently wrong. And on top of that, said the doctors of Hebrew were wrong and leading the Church astray and insinuating if one prays, they will get the confirmation that his ideas are correct. This person also was making A LOT of money off of his ideas (that were not true, but many people were buying it). What would you do different than what FAIR did?
I think FAIR did a great job. Some member were personally attacked by Meldrum numerous times, but did not make a public spectacle of it to platform their position. They didn't get offended and did everything they could to get him back. No. They behaved like both scholars and gentlemen. They spoke with him over 3 months ago expaining what they were doing and brought up concerns with his video, and gave him plenty of time to make changes before a 200 page review was released. Meldrum continued to take jabs at FAIR in that time, but they were patient. After not hearing from him within this time period about what he was going to change, they released only a 100 page document that brings into question the many methods he used, the data he used, and the context, to show that his material is not what it seems to be. It paints a completely different picture than what is actually fact.

[DigitalShadow]

I don't think that FAIR's criticism of Mr. Meldrum's work is innaccurate, but I do think that their level of scrutiny is inconsistent. I've never seen them scrutinize works that agree with scripture and popular LDS theories no matter how unfounded in actual science they are.

In any case, that's just my 2 cents.

[prisonchaplain]

Let me start by saying, I've simply read the posts here. I'm not versed in the matter of controversy. I just remained surprised at how personal the criticism was. Sure, destroy the guy's contentions point by point if they are wrong. BUT why use his words to insinuate that he begged them to lay off so he could make money, and to portray him as having no defense because he did not answer their inquiries? I'm not sure how such an approach is redemptive, if FAIR is just trying to help the brother out. All this seems rather undignified and unnecessary, but that's just my ever humble opinion.

[Loudmouth_Mormon]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

When FAIR insinuated that Meldrum was in it for the money and that he had no defense, it demonstrated a less than ideal spirit, imho.

I take issue with the word "insinuate". That's a word you use when you're attacking someone behind their back, gossiping about them, slyly or subtly trying to do some sort of behind-the-scenes stage setting so people don't notice. When you insinuate something, you're playing dirty politics, elevating rhetoric above fact.

What FAIR is doing is completely above board and transparent. FAIR has severe issues with many aspects of the DVD, including it's claims of being inspired truth, and the author throwing firesides in church facilities. So, the FAIR folks put all their gripes all together and sent them to the author, having first obtained his agreeement to respond by a certain time. The author did not respond, and FAIR published their gripes.

My guess is that the author simply realized that FAIR wasn't going to be fair with him, and chose to disengage.

Well again, he has not disengaged. He is engaging FAIR here. Yesterday (Wednesday 9/3), he stated "look for my complete responses to these several articles on my website at BookofMormonEvidence.org for a more ‘balanced’ understanding of the FAIR reviews in the next few days."

I look forward to reading his responses.

LM

[Loudmouth_Mormon]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

Let me start by saying, I've simply read the posts here. ... I just remained surprised at how personal the criticism was.

I would seriously urge you to go look at all the links to the source documents people are posting. I scoured the avalanche of point-by-point refutings, to find the snowball's worth of what might arguably be considered a personal attack. Now the entire thread is focusing on that snowball. I think maybe my screen name doesn't help matters any - people see something from "loudmouth mormon" and get an incorrect sense of where I'm coming from. Perhaps I'll change it some day.

The avalanche is found here.

LM

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

Loudmouth...wow...I'm sorry, but it seems rather caddy and political for FAIR to insinuate that a fellow active church member has no defense and has proffered his research primarily for money. It's like saying, "We don't want to hit below the belt...so we'll just use "quotes" from our opponents to do so." I'm I reading this wrong?

Look, if you want to win the war of competing ideas, do you not have to get down and crawl in the mud of the trenches or even crack a few heads when need be?

Would the Jesuits not launch an all out frontal assault on the Paulist Fathers as to whether the finger bone of St. Agatha was located in France or Luxemborg when so much is riding on it?

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

I don't think that FAIR's criticism of Mr. Meldrum's work is innaccurate, but I do think that their level of scrutiny is inconsistent. I've never seen them scrutinize works that agree with scripture and popular LDS theories no matter how unfounded in actual science they are.

In any case, that's just my 2 cents.

Since Rod hasn't shown FAIR where they were inaccurate perhaps you would be willing to do it for him?

[livy111us]

I also find his tactics to be very inconsistent as well. He says how Joseph Smith had a revealed geography of the BOM, but doesn't address the many times JS said it happened in North America. In personal conversation, he said that Joseph Smith had differing beliefs of where it happened, yet, 10 minutes prior, he was telling someone else that Joseph Smith had it revealed to him that it happened in North America. I don't think that is right. But, like I said, I like Rod and am sure he can offer something to the scholarly community, but he needs to abide the unwritten law of scholastics. He needs to be able to accept criticism and not think it is a personal attack (which I think is the biggest issue), and not portray the same people that are indirectly employed by the Church, are good friends with First Presidency and the Twelve, some of them help write the Manuals for the Church, etc... as apostates. It is not in very good form to do something like that.

Personally, I believe that there were migrations of Nephites "Northward" who made it to Ohio. The Book of Mormon tells us of tens of thousands of people going northward, whether by sea or by land. Interestingly, we have archaeological evidence of migrations from Mesoamerica up the Mississippi, up to Ohio. I think that Joseph Smith was correct in what he said about Zelph. One must wonder if Onandugus was a great Prophet known from the Rocky Mountains to the East Sea, he would have been at least mentioned in the BOM. But he is not. Why? Because Moroni and Mormon had no idea he existed, because he was part of a satellite culture of Nephites in North America.
So I think he can offer something to scholarship in The Book of Mormon, but believe he is doing it in the wrong way by coming out of the gate swinging, calling the scholars of the Church apostate and leading us astray, mis-representing information, and twisting words of our leaders to make a point. If he would have followed what should have been done, there would not be the need for FAIR to review his information.

[DigitalShadow]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Since Rod hasn't shown FAIR where they were inaccurate perhaps you would be willing to do it for him?

I never said that FAIR is inaccurate, just inconsistent in what they scrutinize and to what level.

[Daniel]

I've never seen them scrutinize works that agree with scripture and popular LDS theories no matter how unfounded in actual science they are.

Personally I believe that they see a real danger with his work. That's the reason for the scrutiny. That by using his faulty data, and appeals to authority people are laying all their faith in what he says, instead of their faith in the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. If there was a fall out, people testimonies are at stake. I'm sure Meldrum is a great guy and has real good intentions but honestly what he is doing can hurt a lot of people. Why do you think anti's are eating this up. They know where Meldrum succeeds they do also. You can find them wringing their hands on RFM, Signature Books, and other known sites hostile to the church. waiting for the fallout with arms wide open.