Patriotism

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

What does the word Patriotic mean to you?

Do you consider yourself patriotic? If so, in what way?

Is patriotism always a good thing? Why or why not?

Can someone be patriotic but still criticize aspects of their government? Why or why not?

Patriotism is an extremely personal thing, and no one else has the right to judge one’s patriotism.

There are things many people do in the name of patriotism that I strongly disagree with. For example, after 9/11 when Bush said “You are either for us, or against us,” I was shocked at his audacity, and small mindedness.

It was, and is, possible to hate what the terrorists did, but not agree that I was either for or against my country, with no gray in between.

There is always gray area in between.

Just because I refuse to put a magnet on my car does not mean I am unpatriotic. Just because I have been adamantly against this war since a year before it started does not make me unpatriotic. Just because I think people have let themselves be duped by the Bush cabal does not mean I am not a patriot.

To the contrary, I am a patriot when I invoke my First Amendment rights, and speak up about these, in my opinion, trite expressions of patriotism,

When I am vocal about the rhetoric people from both the far left and far right buy into, I am a patriot.

I am a patriot when I express my outrage about my country’s use of torture, an obscenity that will take people decades to recover from, both Americans and non.

I am also a patriot in that I want our country healed form the horrific things its leaders have done in the name of God.

I could go on, but I think you get the idea. Unfortunately, when I don‘t follow the “patriot“ crowd, they are adamant that I am not a patriot, and should just keep my mouth shut if I don’t support our leader’s actions. I am told I do not deserve to live in MY country.

But I do deserve to live in America. I deserve the right to continue expressing my concerns. And every time I invoke that right, I am being patriotic.

I do want to say that I finally understood that people who did put a magnet on their car did so to express their support of the troops, and it took me a while to understand that was probably the only thing they could do. I did some soulsearching about other actions I have criticized, and realized my thinking was black and white, not admitting the grays.

So, while I disagree with many people’s political leanings, I don’t doubt, for one moment, that they are as patriotic as they come, including those who judge me unpatriotic because I refuse to put a picture of a crying Eagle on my wall.

Don’t ever question my patriotism.

Elphaba

[Godless]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

What does the word Patriotic mean to you?

Patriotism is love and loyalty toward one's country.

Do you consider yourself patriotic? If so, in what way?

Yes and no. Yes because I am an American servicemember who has sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the US. I have no reservations whatsoever about dying for my country and its citizens.

No because, while I love America and its citizens, I can't help but feel that patriotism is just a hop and a skip away from nationalism, which takes love and loyalty to the next level: pride. I'm not proud to be an American. I am grateful that I was born into a free American society, but I see no reason to take pride in it. Nations are just social constructs meant to divide the people of the world. Americans are not, by nature, any better than Brits, Africans, or Mexicans. We are all represented by different flags, but we are united in our humanity. I am proud to be a human being.

Is patriotism always a good thing? Why or why not?

I already partially covered this one. Patriotism is good because it can unite societies that are facing tough times, the way that America was united after 9/11. It can potentially be bad if it is taken too far to the point that an us vs them mentality arises. Our country may be better than others, but we as citizens of that country are no better or worse than citizens of other countries.

Can someone be patriotic but still criticize aspects of their government? Why or why not?

I believe that criticism is the truest form of patriotism. After all, how can you say that you love your country if you're not willing to speak up when you see something wrong with it?

[bytor2112]

What does the word Patriotic mean to you?

Do you consider yourself patriotic? If so, in what way?

Is patriotism always a good thing? Why or why not?

Can someone be patriotic but still criticize aspects of their government? Why or why not?

Is patriotism being a good "citizen"? Maybe. Does it mean doing your part in preserving the ideals of our founding fathers....I think so. Does it mean Americanism above all else or fierce nationalism......depends. Can we all be better citizens and more patriotic...absolutely. How so? Perhaps by remembering that our differences are also our great source of strengthand by never forgetting the sacrifice of those who made our freedom possible and by respecting the opinions of Americans who disagree with current military operations.

I am patriotic....I am very blessed to live in this great nation. I think patriotism is always good.....not nationalism. Of course you can be critical of your government and still be patriotic.......... the nature of political discourse is criticism of the other party's ideas. The War in Iraq is very unpopular.....I support the war...but not how it has been waged. I respect those who disagree....but the problem I have is the fact that the war was used as a political wedge and I feel for the troops who have to deal with that.

And GW said, "If your not with us, your with the terrorists."

[a-train]

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. - George Washington

-a-train

[skalenfehl]

To me, patriotism means loving and being devoted to my country. It means being thankful to those before me who laid their lives down against the forces of evil who would take power for themselves or to captivate others. Loving my country and being devoted to it means that I will lay down my life for my neighbor or my friend or any fellow American who's liberty is in peril by said forces of evil.

There are many great examples of true patriots in American history. Many from the Revolutionary war come to mind. Any person who voluntarily enlists in the military for the sake of defending our constitutional and inalienable rights, in my opinion is a patriot. I believe Captain Moroni, the stripling warriors of Helaman's army and others who defending their liberty are also patriots.

Furthermore, patriotism, in my opinion isn't limited to those who sacrifice their lives in our defense, but also those who sacrifice their time to serve our country in more social capacities. A true American patriot respects our flag because he/she understands what it represents. It's not just a random selection of colors and shapes.

Just my two cents.

[rastler000]

And GW said, "If your not with us, your with the terrorists."

Gosh.... I guess I am a terrorist. How come somebody didn't send me the memo? I would have put OBL on my Thanksgiving invite list.

Back on subject..... I agree with tha last posters definition (minus the LDS specific part)!

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by rastler000

And GW said, "If your not with us, your with the terrorists."

Gosh.... I guess I am a terrorist. How come somebody didn't send me the memo? I would have put OBL on my Thanksgiving invite list.

Back on subject..... I agree with tha last posters definition (minus the LDS specific part)!

I was correcting Elphaba's statement...........and he wasn't referring to you. We all might at least be thankful for the Presidents efforts to kep us safe after 911.....that could be Patriotic, whether we agre with the war or not....imo.

[Brenton]

"And GW said, "If your not with us, your with the terrorists."
To me, this was the pretext for the involvement of my country, and others. -___-
I'm happy to be labelled a terrorist, because I'm not with him.

It's hilarious to me.

[a-train]

It is no laughing matter, the fact that via the Patriot Act, an executive designation of "terrorist" is all that is needed for you or I to be taken from our home and held in prison without a warrant, charges, legal representation, a trial, or any time frame for release. It is difficult to concieve of something less constitutional, less American.

-a-train

[rastler000]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

I was correcting Elphaba's statement...........and he wasn't referring to you. We all might at least be thankful for the Presidents efforts to kep us safe after 911.....that could be Patriotic, whether we agre with the war or not....imo.

I respect his efforts and anybody who would attempt that impossible and dangerous job. But because I do not agree with what he did means I should be getting out the prayer mats for OBL after he gets the Thanksgiving invite? That was sort of what the quote suggested afterall.