Patriotism

[deseretgov]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

What does the word Patriotic mean to you?

It means being loyal to and upholding those ideals that you believe in.

Do you consider yourself patriotic? If so, in what way?

Yes. I am loyal to those causes and ideals I believe in. I am patriotic towards rights of life, liberty, and property. And to other principles not of democracy but of freedom.

Is patriotism always a good thing? Why or why not?

It depends on what you are patriotic towards.

Can someone be patriotic but still criticize aspects of their government? Why or why not?

Yes. Especially if the government is violating the ideals a person believes in. Or even worse the government is violating the ideals it is supposed to represent!

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by rastler000

I respect his efforts and anybody who would attempt that impossible and dangerous job. But because I do not agree with what he did means I should be getting out the prayer mats for OBL after he gets the Thanksgiving invite? That was sort of what the quote suggested afterall.

Unless you are a Nation, Rastler.......he wasn't talking about you. If you read his words he was specifically addressing nations that provide aid and support to terrorists.Sounds reasonable to me....I mean at least be intellectually honest about what the man said and the obvious meaning of his words.

"We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place until there is no refuge or no rest.

And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation in every region now has a decision to make: Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.

From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime. Our nation has been put on notice, we're not immune from attack. We will take defensive measures against terrorism to protect Americans

[rastler000]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

Unless you are a Nation, Rastler.......he wasn't talking about you. If you read his words he was specifically addressing nations that provide aid and support to terrorists.Sounds reasonable to me....I mean at least be intellectually honest about what the man said and the obvious meaning of his words.

"We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place until there is no refuge or no rest.

And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation in every region now has a decision to make: Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.

From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime. Our nation has been put on notice, we're not immune from attack. We will take defensive measures against terrorism to protect Americans

Pakistan and Saudia Arabia do this to this day. While we have sent some missles into Pakistan of late, I can't help but notice we are not at war with them.

But I guess the patriotism thing where.... "you are either for us, or against us", is a lot easier to grasp then the reality of the various geopolitical dynamics as to why we have to wink at what Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (among others) does.

Which gets right back to the - in this country - you are either with us, a Patriot, or against us, supporting terrorsim. Which is nothing more than cynical political game playing.

[Brenton]

"We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place until there is no refuge or no rest."
Terrorism is a big lie. An enemy image to "keep us together".

"turn them one against another"
Thats exactly what is happening, but it's more turning the citizens on the whole against each other, and that's how you sustain a war, the corporations profit.

[a-train]

"We will starve the American people of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place until there is no refuge or no rest." - the Banker Elites

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by rastler000

Pakistan and Saudia Arabia do this to this day. While we have sent some missles into Pakistan of late, I can't help but notice we are not at war with them.

But I guess the patriotism thing where.... "you are either for us, or against us", is a lot easier to grasp then the reality of the various geopolitical dynamics as to why we have to wink at what Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (among others) does.

Which gets right back to the - in this country - you are either with us, a Patriot, or against us, supporting terrorsim. Which is nothing more than cynical political game playing.

Sigh.........sorry you feel that way Rastler. I don't feel that way and it's to bad that the national dialogue hinges on misstatements and misunderstandings. President Bush's speech certainly was not alluding to anything like that. You really should read the speech....it was very well written and delivered just 12 days after 911. I am not a huge fan of President Bush', but I think he gets a raw deal and I am for honesty.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by Brenton

Terrorism is a big lie. An enemy image to "keep us together".

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Please explain. From my point of view, 9/11 did in fact happen, and it was in fact an act of terrorism.

[bytor2112]

Quotes from Osama Bin Laden: (Just trying to keep the lie going, Brenton)


"Hostility toward America is a religious duty, and we hope to be rewarded for it by God . . . . I am confident that Muslims will be able to end the legend of the so-called superpower that is America. Time Magazine

"The pieces of the bodies of infidels were flying like dust particles. If you would have seen it with your own eyes, you would have been very pleased, and your heart would have been filled with joy." -- At the wedding of his son in southern Kandahar about the 17 sailors who died suicide bombing of the USS Cole off the coast of Yemen

"Every American man is an enemy to us." -- Independent.

" . . . It is far better for anyone to kill a single American soldier than to squander his efforts on other activities." -- May 1998

"We--with God's help--call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson." Feb. 1998 - Bin Laden edict

[rastler000]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

Sigh.........sorry you feel that way Rastler. I don't feel that way and it's to bad that the national dialogue hinges on misstatements and misunderstandings. President Bush's speech certainly was not alluding to anything like that. You really should read the speech....it was very well written and delivered just 12 days after 911. I am not a huge fan of President Bush', but I think he gets a raw deal and I am for honesty.

I am a huge fan for what Bush did in the days after 9/11. I am a huge fan of what originally went down in Afganistan. Heck, I was even cool with taking Saddam out. But after that it has been a mess.

Does saying this make me unpatriotic? If so then my dad, 30 years in the military, two tours in Vietnam, to this day helping recruit kids, supporting the troops with money and time, and a lot more than that, is also not a Patriot. Because my views are similar to his.

[a-train]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

"Hostility toward America is a religious duty, and we hope to be rewarded for it by God . . . . I am confident that Muslims will be able to end the legend of the so-called superpower that is America. Time Magazine

I would agree that the they will be able to do so as long as our Federal government continues the course it is on.

-a-train