Patriotism

[DigitalShadow]

Another thread got me thinking of this and I would like to discuss it further without derailing another thread. The goal is to get honest opinions on the subject and rationally discuss what patriotism means to different people. If you do not feel you can calmly express your opinion on the subject, feel free not to post because I do not want to see this thread locked. Here are some questions to get things started.

What does the word Patriotic mean to you?

Do you consider yourself patriotic? If so, in what way?

Is patriotism always a good thing? Why or why not?

Can someone be patriotic but still criticize aspects of their government? Why or why not?

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

Another thread got me thinking of this and I would like to discuss it further without derailing another thread. The goal is to get honest opinions on the subject and rationally discuss what patriotism means to different people. If you do not feel you can calmly express your opinion on the subject, feel free not to post because I do not want to see this thread locked. Here are some questions to get things started.

What does the word Patriotic mean to you?

Do you consider yourself patriotic? If so, in what way?

Is patriotism always a good thing? Why or why not?

Can someone be patriotic but still criticize aspects of their government? Why or why not?

Think I know what thread you're talking about, DS, and I'm not sure I can be that rational.

Patriotic means loving your country and wishing for its good.

Yeah, I'm patriotic. See other thread.

I think if it's grounded in sober thought and real love it is. See so much bs about it, though.

Criticize? Of course. When people don't criticize you, it's often that they've given up hope.

[DigitalShadow]

Originally Posted by Captain_Curmudgeon

Think I know what thread you're talking about, DS, and I'm not sure I can be that rational.

Patriotic means loving your country and wishing for its good.

Yeah, I'm patriotic. See other thread.

I think if it's grounded in sober thought and real love it is. See so much bs about it, though.

Criticize? Of course. When people don't criticize you, it's often that they've given up hope.

Thank you for your post and for serving our country as well. I can tell you love this country quite a bit.

Personally I think that the word "patriotism" has been misused lately especially in American politics. Anyone who disagrees, questions or criticizes is immediately labled "unpatriotic" because that is easier than actually addressing what is brought up. To me that type of misuse is an insult to the people who truly love America and have put their lives on the line to defend it.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

Thank you for your post and for serving our country as well. I can tell you love this country quite a bit.

Personally I think that the word "patriotism" has been misused lately especially in American politics. Anyone who disagrees, questions or criticizes is immediately labled "unpatriotic" because that is easier than actually addressing what is brought up. To me that type of misuse is an insult to the people who truly love America and have put their lives on the line to defend it.

I agree with your assessment of the current usage of the word. I think that we can (and sometimes should question and/or criticize while still being patriotic. And while we're at it, can I just state for the record that patriotism does not consist of "Americans (or whatever country you may be from) rock and you suck!" That is not patriotism.

[checkerboy]

Ok I do believe that I am patriotic. I don't have to prove my patriotism to any one. I know that I would do what I have to to stand up for my country and the values that I have learned by being a citizen of my country. I would hope that every patriotic citizen would take a long hard look at their government and would criticize what they feel needs criticizing. I don't want to argue about this because really it is my belief and tough if you don't agree.

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

Don't tempt me. I believe in action, not bluster.

[unixknight]

Originally Posted by checkerboy

Ok I do believe that I am patriotic. I don't have to prove my patriotism to any one. I know that I would do what I have to to stand up for my country and the values that I have learned by being a citizen of my country. I would hope that every patriotic citizen would take a long hard look at their government and would criticize what they feel needs criticizing. I don't want to argue about this because really it is my belief and tough if you don't agree.

I do agree.

I think each person need to express their love of their country by using whatever talents Heavenly Father has given them. Some do it by running for office and trying to make an honest difference. Some do it by joining the military. Some do it by simply being the best American they can be in whatever their chosen vocation is. Some combine two or more of these.

Here's another way, and this is my favorite: I teach my kids to love their country as much as I do and to promote its well being in the best way they can. If that means military service, Great. If it means heading up the next major advance in technology, Great. if it simply means raising their children the same way, Great!

Anybody who presumes to judge the patriotism of others is making a mistake. It's like questioning someone's Christianity. How can you truly know what's in someone's heart?

Soldiers are honored as they are precisely because they do what most cannot or will not. THAT is why they deserve the kudos they've earned. To disparage the patriotism of others simply for not having served is to make a mockery of that honor.

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by unixknight

Soldiers are honored as they are precisely because they do what most cannot or will not. THAT is why they deserve the kudos they've earned.

Think I understand that. But it seems to me that BECOMING soldiers is just part of doing what most cannot or will not. That's what gets me going, having been a soldier.

[lilered]

The whole subject of Patriotism and or Patriotc seems to me to mean something greater than idealism. Our soldiers for example demostrate their patriotism by their willingness to sacrifice of themselves for the greater benefit of the country(us). When one of our leaders is labeled a Patriot, it means to me he is willing to or has pay(paid) a sacrifice of some kind for the common or greater good of the country.

This great country was founded by leaders that "walked the talk" when it came to Patriotism. Something our leaders of today seem to have forgotten. It appears now that most put their own desires ahead of taking a position which is best for the country. They are more interested in buying vote than taking the high road. IMHO

[Brenton]

What does the word Patriotic mean to you?

Do you consider yourself patriotic? If so, in what way?

Is patriotism always a good thing? Why or why not?

Can someone be patriotic but still criticize aspects of their government? Why or why not?

To me, patriotism is a way of seeing ones own country as above others.
People ask you, "which is the best country in the world?" and most people answer MINE IS.
If Patriotism means just wanting the best out of a country, then its ok.
But that can still lead to seeing yours as top notch.

I'm definitely not patriotic - I mean, I want the good for my country, but at the same time, my country has no more right to good living and so forth than does iraq, iran, syria, afghanistan, pakistan, russia, egypt, [any country on earth here].

Patriotism is scarcely a good thing, because it can be used as just one more thing to make you feel and see yourself as seperate to others. The bottom line is that everyone is a human being. We are all born naked.

Again it would depend what sort of patriot you are. To a lot of, for example, old school american conservatives (who consequently dont like the way conservatism has gone in america). Patriotism is just freedom, true freedom. To speak as you wish, to be free of corporate companies, to live in a secular society (as many of the important founding fathers wanted). If I try to think of an example of such a person I instantly think of TheAmazingAtheist on youtube.
To me though, the government should be criticised by a patriot. Patriotism doesn't mean you're on the side of the government, infact I would say it's the exact opposite. Patriotism is really just your ideals for your world or society. So patriot to me rejects government, because the governments of this world only do very little good for their people.

Our soldiers for example demostrate their patriotism by their willingness to sacrifice of themselves for the greater benefit of the country

I find this a very interesting comment, and, all respect you for having that. But I'd appreciate if I can give my take on that, without flame wars coming from either side.
My mind turns to glue when I hear a statement like that. I cant get my mind past the fact that they are both illegal wars, and innocent people have been killed in the hundreds of thousands. Thats not patriotism, thats mass murder, and if you have to kill to uphold your societies ideals then there's obviously big flaws in our socieities. At the same time though, a lot of these soldiers dont understand what theyre getting themselves into ... training is different than killing many people every day. I think this is why a lot of soldiers end up with PTSD.

for the greater benefit of the country

And here's one more thing ... what gives your country, or any country the right to benifit more than the other?

Patriotism isn't good, in the sense that it applies labels "American, Australian, Iraqi, English, Icelandic, etc". Labels which seperate us can never be good. Those labels allow people in their minds to be more O.K with killing or harming someone who isnt from their tribe. This becomes a major problem when you realise we're all one.

And while we're at it, can I just state for the record that patriotism does not consist of "Americans (or whatever country you may be from) rock and you suck!" That is not patriotism.

No, but that's what it's commonly understood to be, so it doesn't really matter what it really means. Much the same way that most people in the world believe Jesus Christs birthday is 25th December.

If you disagree with anything I've said, please answer without slander.