American Family Asociation's Christmas "Ornament"

[SisterofJared]

The cross has been a symbol of Christianity long before the Klu Klux Klan existed.

I see no reason for any Christian group to give it up. Rather than let it stand for the KKK, they should use it so much that the image is planted in everyone's mind as a Christian symbol.

When I visited San Francisco, I brought home t shirts for everyone. They had the golden gate bridge on them and said, "San Francisco." One of my daughters refused to wear hers because it was purple. She would wear a black or blue or green or any other color of t shirt that said San Francisco, but not one that was purple, because that was the color the homosexuals have claimed. My question is why have we given it to them?

As good friend has the middle name of Gaye. She is 58 years old, and today is careful not to reveal her middle name. What once stood for happy and delighted has been surrendered to mean homosexual or lesbian. Why??

When something stands for something good, we should not surrender the meaning away to something else. Many black churches use the symbol of the cross and IMO, they should continue to do so, and help restore the former significance, and discredit any other claim to it.

Sister of Jared

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by Elgama

I just have problem with them not spotting it but guess from the posts here its not that obvious to everyone - it could just be a bad photo

I think you're talking about the cross, and not the symbols on the temple, but I'm not sure.

If you're talking about the cross, I agree. I admit I'm a bit stunned that so few people recognize the abhorrent image this electric cross can potentially convey.

I'm not saying everyone will see it, or that they should. I'm sure people will buy the cross only to demonstrate their strong faith.

The person who sent me the link received it from an internet list she is on, so I am not the only person who finds this obscene, especially, as DS pointed out, race is a very sensitive issue at the moment.

In fact, I could see one of those who shouted "Kill Obama" the loudest, proudly displaying this cross in his yard. After all, it looks like a KKK cross, but you don't have to keep lighting it on fire.

Elphaba

[pam]

Originally Posted by MarginOfError

The lawn ornament, a cross wrapped in white christmas tree lights, bears frightening similarity to a burning cross. A burning cross was used most notably by the Ku Klux Klan as a way to intimidate non-Caucasians.

I have my doubts that the similarity was intentional, or that it was meant to send a message to a minority community. But it is an unfortunate occurrence. Apparently the AFA needs a better marketing team (not to mention better leaders, better agendas, and better thought).

That was my first thought when I clicked on the link. My first thought was on the burning crosses the KKK used to instill fear.

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by SisterofJared

The cross has been a symbol of Christianity long before the Ku Klux Klan existed.

I see no reason for any Christian group to give it up. Rather than let it stand for the KKK, they should use it so much that the image is planted in everyone's mind as a Christian symbol.

I never said any Christian group should give up the cross. I never said anyone should give up the cross.

When I visited San Francisco, I brought home t shirts for everyone. They had the golden gate bridge on them and said, "San Francisco." >snip< My question is why have we given it to them?

Oh please. Can we stop beating up on the gays?

As good friend has the middle name of Gaye. She is 58 years old, and today is careful not to reveal her middle name. What once stood for happy and delighted has been surrendered to mean homosexual or lesbian. Why??

What does this even mean?

The KKK burning the cross in front of a black family's house while it rapes and murders them is the equivalent to your friend’s inability to reveal her middle name? Is she going to be tortured or lynched for it? Does she spend her life in terror that someone is going to kill her because of her name?

When something stands for something good, we should not surrender the meaning away to something else. Many black churches use the symbol of the cross and IMO, they should continue to do so, and help restore the former significance, and discredit any other claim to it.

…sigh…

I never said any church whatsoever should give up the cross, and it's a bit obtuse to assume I did.

I am referring to this lighted cross only. I am saying the AFA should not sell it because it is an image that could, for many people, represent unspeakable acts, not faith. Obviously that's what I saw, and I am not alone.

Additionally, it is not an image anyone gave up to them, them” being the KKK and other white supremacist groups.

To compare a burning cross to a regular cross is to be ignorant of its history. It is an image of vile hatred and atrocities, not Christianity.

It is the atrocities that insist the image of a burning cross is obscene.

Elphaba

[SisterofJared]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

I never said any Christian group should give up the cross. I never said anyone should give up the cross.

Oh please. Can we stop beating up on the gays?

What does this even mean?

The KKK burning the cross in front of a black family's house while it rapes and murders them is the equivalent to your friend’s inability to reveal her middle name? Is she going to be tortured or lynched for it? Does she spend her life in terror that someone is going to kill her because of her name?

…sigh…

I never said any church whatsoever should give up the cross, and it's a bit obtuse to assume I did.

I am referring to this lighted cross only. I am saying the AFA should not sell it because it is an image that could, for many people, represent unspeakable acts, not faith. Obviously that's what I saw, and I am not alone.

Additionally, it is not an image anyone gave up to them, them” being the KKK and other white supremacist groups.

To compare a burning cross to a regular cross is to be ignorant of its history. It is an image of vile hatred and atrocities, not Christianity.

It is the atrocities that insist the image of a burning cross is obscene.

Elphaba

I confess when I looked at it, I saw only a Cross, such as you would see on a rooftop or on a church at Christmas. I didn't think of the Klu Klux Klan at all. I noticed other people saw the same thing. Some of them anyway. When I did read the posts about it being like a Klu Klux Klan cross I was somewhat surprised. Having lived most of my life in the SW and the NW, racism is not much a part of the picture in my life. I do believe racism exists, but that it is quickly fading and non-existent for many people today.

I don't see a burning cross.... just a lit cross.

Of course, my friend isn't going to be tortured to reveal her middle name. My only comparison there is that we shouldn't change the meaning of things to please a group who want to change it. The color purple or the word gay shouldn't be changed to mean homosexual, nor should a cross mean KKK. I'm not sure why the KKK started using the cross when terrorizing people. It's a bad fit.

I understand where you are coming from since the picture reminds you of a burning cross. I sincerely doubt if that was the intention, and certainly the AFA might want to revisit the idea of marketing it. It makes me curious to know how many black people have purchased it, and how many have the same response that you did.

Sister of Jared

[DeborahC]

[QUOTE=MarginOfError;288827]The lawn ornament, a cross wrapped in white christmas tree lights, bears frightening similarity to a burning cross. A burning cross was used most notably by the Ku Klux Klan as a way to intimidate non-Caucasians.
QUOTE]

I don't think that this 3 foot variety bears ANY RESEMBLENCE WHATSOEVER to the burning KKK Cross!

Comparing the two is like calling a pussycat a saber-toothed tiger.

People see what they want to see.

The cross was bastardized by the KKK just as many other symbols have been, including the pentagram, which by the way, stands at the door of the cemetary in the Azore Islands where my family is buried, and can still be seen in many church windows in Spain.

If some Christians choose to reclaim the cross, I say hoorah!

I think it's a beautiful symbol.
To me, the light represents the light of Christ, Tipareth.
The empty cross speaks of the resurrection of the Savior.

We see what we want to see.
I see beauty in this symbol.

[DeborahC]

Originally Posted by MarginOfError

Interesting. I've never heard that one before. PM me and tell me what they say.

Here's a link for you to enjoy: ( edited by moderator: link removed--anti-LDS website)

In other interesting things about mormons, I found out this weekend that Christ was crucified in Utah. Why don't they tell us this stuff in Sunday School?

He was?

Originally Posted by Wingnut

I think it's interesting that you say that people are asking "all the time" about it, because (1) I've never heard anyone ask about it; and (2) other than Salt Lake (and maybe Nauvoo, though I'm not sure), I didn't even know that LDS temples had moons on them.

Regardless, questions asked about a moonstone on a temple are hardly comparable to the hatred that a burning cross evokes.

Well Wing, first of all I didn't say anybody was "asking" anything. I said I heard comments about it all the time. Now you say you haven't, and that's fine, but that could be for many reasons. Maybe you just hang out with mormons? Maybe you don't hang out with anti-mormons? I live in Portland, Oregon where there are a lot of liberals -- I'm also in University -- maybe I'm involved in more religious discussions than you are? Maybe I'm just twice your age and have had more time to hear them? Gosh, I don't know


Could you tell us about the time you saw a burning cross?
I'd be interested in hearing that story?

As far as raping, murdering, and lynching, I haven't heard much of that going on lately.
Last I looked we had a black president and the country had moved on...

I fear if we live our lives constantly worried about offending someone, it will be a very sterile, boring, nervous life.
No thank you.

[SisterofJared]

Being Politically Correct means ALWAYS having to say you're sorry!

[DeborahC]

Well, that's true, but I AM sorry Elphaba, that this upsets you so.

I just don't see what you're seeing.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by SisterofJared

I'm not sure why the KKK started using the cross when terrorizing people.

I sincerely doubt if that was the intention, and certainly the AFA might want to revisit the idea of marketing it.

Sister of Jared

My guess as to why they used to burn crosses is the same reason they hid themselves in bedsheets: They were closeted cross dressers. Too bad they couldn't have worn something pink and frilly underneath instead.

Once they had the prototype cross in mock up before production, it would have been hard to not notice the similarity between that "Christmas Decoration" and the Klan symbol. Wonder if some will put them on their front porch for other holidays as well?