Is race really an issue right now?

[TeancumsSword]

Originally Posted by Wingnut

Yep. That's why I emphasized noting the year. Right in the middle of the civil rights movement. I believe that inter-racial marriage was still legally prohibited in many states at that time (not that it was probably a popular idea anyway)



W.W. Phelps was never even a General Authority. That combined with your admitted questionability about the verification of this quote make me hesitant to give it any credence. He was also excommunicated twice, the second time for entering into an unauthorized polygamous marriage, which discredits him further. He was re-baptized two days after that, however.

Oops! I left off the lead paragraph....

In July 1831 after the arrival of Joseph Smith, Jr., and others in Jackson County, Missouri, plans were made to preach to the Native Americans. Smith received a directive on intermarriage with the Indians. At a later date William W. Phelps wrote, evidently from memory, what he claimed was part or the substance of this revelation:

Part — of a revelation by Joseph Smith Jun. given over the boundary, west of Jackson Co. Missouri, on Sunday morning, July 17, 1831, when Seven Elders, viz: Joseph Smith Jun. Oliver Cowdery, W.W. Phelps, Martin Harris, Joseph Coe, Ziba Peterson and Joshua Lewis united their hearts in prayer, in a private place, to inquire of the Lord who should preach the first sermon to the remnants of the Lamanites and Nephites, and the people of that Section, that should assemble that day in the Indian country, to hear the gospel, and the revelations according to the Book of Mormon.

Among the company, there being neither pen, ink or paper, Joseph [Smith, Jr.] remarked that the Lord could preserve his words as he had ever done, till the time appointed, and proceeded:

Apparently, it was Joseph who gave this supposed revelation. But I can see your point on the Phelps-Polygamy thing. Could you post a source for the information you posted about Phelps?

BTW, did you mean to sound hostile?

[SisterofJared]

what is TIA?

By the war, that BoM scripture that talked about being white and delightsome was an error. Earlier editions of the BoM said, "pure and delightsome." In the 80s, the Ensign had a big write up about the fact that it was one of several printing errors that had been found. Back in the days when letters were put in one by one by typesetters, mistakes could and did happen.

So we know that actually the lamanites will become a PURE and delightsome people, not a white and delightsome people.

SoJ

[TeancumsSword]

Originally Posted by countrygirl66

So if I get your meaning? My family and extended family who are (black, white, korean, mexican, danish, indian, tia, scottish, german, slovak, and ???) We are going to be the rebellion that will be a means of destroying the government and cause the death and misery of man. We won't be delightsom and white. Sounds about right, better watch out, were comming for ya!

Oh dear, how did you ever draw that out of that quote or my posts?

My point was that if this revelation is true, Joseph actually wanted us to intermarry with the Lamanites and few Nephites found amoung them.

[countrygirl66]

Originally Posted by SisterofJared

what is TIA?SoJ

From thialand. My spelling is terrible. sorry

[Jenamarie]

Originally Posted by SisterofJared

their post.

And I replied that the only problem I have with that is that in order to get to that point.... well, if I was just having babies today, and married a different race, I would be sad to see that none of my children would look like me. Cacasians genes aren't that strong... so when you marry someone with brown eyes and you have blue eyes, usually the baby will have brown eyes. Usually olive skin genes are stronger than light skin genes, etc. So when a white person marries a black person, generally you have a black baby. And there is nothing wrong with that.... but if in your heart you want to have a baby that looks like you, you won't have.

There is nothing WRONG with that.... but there is also nothing wrong with wanting to have a child that looks like you. It's great fun seeing yourself in your children. Recently at my sisters house, my granddaughter and her granddaughter sat side by side. Both babies are 1 year old, born within days of each other. It was fun to see that both were the spitting image of their grandmas!

We look at family pictures and see whose ears someone has, whose nose or whose eyes. It's a normal part of being part of a family. And if we became one race... the chance to have our child look like us would be lost to many.

If you loved someone of a different race, it probably wouldn't matter at all. In fact, you would be happy to see that your child looked like their father/mother.

I dunno, I'm a white person married to another white person, and I sometimes really question whether I'm actually my children's mother. Niether of my already-born children looks ANYTHING like me! Infact, my daughter is the spitting image of her grandmother, and my son's newborn pictures looked *exactly* like my DH's (so much so that it freaked my MIL out a little ) So marrying within my race didn't give me that benefit.

On the other hand, we had a bi-racial family in our ward a few years ago (dad was white, mom was black from Trinidad. beautiful accent!) and the oldest son looked like the spitting image of his dad, if dad were to get a deep tan.

[TeancumsSword]

Originally Posted by TeancumsSword

Oh dear, how did you ever draw that out of that quote or my posts?

My point was that if this revelation is true, Joseph actually wanted us to intermarry with the Lamanites and few Nephites found amoung them.

Also I have an adopted aunt who is half Philipino half Black, and my sister's two girls are mixed, one is Black/Latina the other is Puerto Rican/Latina.

[Jenamarie]

And an interesting example from our own soon-to-be-President (who is bi-racial). Here he is as a child with his maternal (white) grandfather:


He may not have the same eye or hair color, but I'd still say there's an extremely strong family resemblance!

(and I'm not meaning to pick on you SoJ, just pointing out that it IS possible to have kids that "look like you" even if they have different racial make-up )

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by TeancumsSword

Oops! I left off the lead paragraph....



Apparently, it was Joseph who gave this supposed revelation. But I can see your point on the Phelps-Polygamy thing. Could you post a source for the information you posted about Phelps?

BTW, did you mean to sound hostile?

Okay, I'll admit I pulled that info from Wiki (article here), which for this particular article doesn't actually cite sources, interestingly. Aside from having looked it up here, I did previously already know that he had been excommunicated, though I did not know why nor that it had happened twice.

Did I intend to sound hostile? No. I intended to sound superior.

Originally Posted by SisterofJared

what is TIA?

By the war, that BoM scripture that talked about being white and delightsome was an error. Earlier editions of the BoM said, "pure and delightsome." In the 80s, the Ensign had a big write up about the fact that it was one of several printing errors that had been found. Back in the days when letters were put in one by one by typesetters, mistakes could and did happen.

So we know that actually the lamanites will become a PURE and delightsome people, not a white and delightsome people.

SoJ

I never knew that. I've only ever heard "pure."

Originally Posted by Jenamarie

I dunno, I'm a white person married to another white person, and I sometimes really question whether I'm actually my children's mother. Niether of my already-born children looks ANYTHING like me! Infact, my daughter is the spitting image of her grandmother, and my son's newborn pictures looked *exactly* like my DH's (so much so that it freaked my MIL out a little ) So marrying within my race didn't give me that benefit.

On the other hand, we had a bi-racial family in our ward a few years ago (dad was white, mom was black from Trinidad. beautiful accent!) and the oldest son looked like the spitting image of his dad, if dad were to get a deep tan.

I have two funny stories that I thought of as I read your post. One is about a man I used to work with. Occasionally his wife and two children would come to the office to have lunch with him. Every time they did, after they left, we (he was the only man in the office full of women) would rave about how cute his kids were. Inevitably, his response was "Yep. Good thing my wife cheats on me!"

The other story is about a high school friend of mine who is now married and has one child. My friend is a platinum blond (natural towhead) and her husband has sandy brown hair. Their son has flaming red hair. She likes to tell people "It was the UPS guy." Incidentally, her husband works for UPS.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by TeancumsSword

My point was that if this revelation is true, Joseph actually wanted us to intermarry with the Lamanites and few Nephites found amoung them.

I would be surprised if he did teach that, but I wouldn't doubt it at all. Surprised because of the times in which he lived. But I wouldn't be skeptical. However, until I can see actual documentation for the quote (I know, I'm one to talk...darned Wiki not citing its sources), I'll remain skeptical of it.

[WANDERER]

It's just there...I'm a mutt : ) and appropriate light social small talk seems to consist of what country does your surname come from *rolls eyes*. Now this brings either of two reactions
a) face checking (I'm a mutt, do I look like like where my surname hails from? Nope, didn't think so).
or
b) assurances from various ethnic groups that the surname is also there...therefore I must be of that particular group or related (a more educated guess based on facial structure that I hail from further origins in terms of genetic ancestry.... but quite obtuse really).

So yeah I'm pretty happy about having the mutt tag legitimised..now I can put all discussion to rest on association to any one culture/ancestry in particular and just get by with citizenship and place of birth...well perhaps. Race is just another issue in a big bundle. Hey but I'm blue eyed, blonde haired and freckled and fair-skinned....with a few additionals. Yep, look nothing like my family...but a lot like my great-grandmother. All good fun : )