Canadian health care will kill you

[FunkyTown]

Americans Filching Free Health Care in Canada - The New York Times

Here's an example, JohnDoe. Make of it what you will, but it does happen.

EDIT: I should point out that the US has superior health care for those who can afford it. The doctors aren't overworked, there are more of them - Many of them Doctors from Canada who moved to the US after gaining a subsidized education in Canada because doctors in the US are paid more and work less hours.

Poor people come to Canada for health care. Rich people go to the US.

[john doe]

You do realize that was written over 16 years ago, right? I was hoping for something a little more recent than that.

[FunkyTown]

Originally Posted by john doe

You do realize that was written over 16 years ago, right? I was hoping for something a little more recent than that.

While there aren't a lot of vast changes to health care in the past few years, here are more recent examples:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/462504

Americans Going to Canada for Flu Shots - Health News - redOrbit

Bill Mann: Americans Who've Used Canada's Health-Care System Respond to Current Big-Lie Media Campaign

The Huffington Post is the most recent one.

I know it might shock some people, but many Americans do go to Canada for health care.

Even Cuba.

Cuba provides free health care without the worry | Worldfocus

Much as it might pain people, that's a real phenomenon. Yes, many Canadians go to the US for health care.

Those are the rich ones.

[KrazyKay]

I can tell you that many people here in Texas go to Mexico for health care as well because it is a lot cheaper than US care or heading north to Canada (for many of them).

If Obama's plan goes through, I am hoping it won't have the problems the current medicare and medicaid has. Right now my husband isn't working - he is looking but no one wants to hire someone with autism even if they are high functioning - but they won't say that is why, they just say "we'll call" and never do and never answer when he calls them. We've determined it is because of his autism. I'm going to college still working on my B.S. degree. So at the moment we do not have any income except the help from my parents to pay bills (luckily our house and truck are both paid off), which also means no insurance. I've tried getting help from the government with no luck. We were denied food stamps because we don't have a mortgage/rent payments or a car loan and we were denied medicare for our 9 year old daughter for the same reason - no mortgage/rent payments or car loans. I have yet to see anywhere in this proposed healthcare that will actually be helpful to people in our situation.

[Just_A_Guy]

Originally Posted by HEthePrimate

Heck, I live in the U.S., and we have waiting times here! And rationing. The difference is that in the U.S., those who get the best care have the most money.

Whereas in a state-run health care system, the ones who get the best care are the ones with the best political connections. Of course, the rich tend to have better political connections, so the rich are still going to be getting better health care . . .

For my part, as long as I remain in America, the odds of my one day becoming rich are far better than my odds of one day having good political connections. So, forced to choose between a system that favors the rich and a system that favors the politically connected . . . I choose the former.

Originally Posted by Charlyc

Ummm...facts aren't for fear mongering. Sure there may be 'poor' options available however Mrs Ramsey didn't have those available when her cancer returned so she just died, Obama's mum had to argue to get treatment even though she had cover, plus all the other anecdotes around

Just this week I posted a couple of anecdotes about the UK and the Oregon state-run health care systems. You might want to search the forums for them.

All countries seem to want to improve their health care and reduce costs but they start at full coverage first and then work on the problem. The US seems to do it the other way around, cover the rich first, make healthcare insurance businesses profitable and then think about the rest.........

I've mentioned in other discussions here, the population bomb and other social/economic factors that may well make long-term universal health care unsustainable. If you get people used to being on the dole for long periods of time, then when the federal gravy train gets derailed those people are worse off than they are before--because they have no idea how to take care of themselves (Exhibit A being New Orleans' response to Hurricane Katrina).

[prisonchaplain]

Medical tourism is a niche, but may be a solution for some middle class people. For example, I remember reading in an AARP magazine that India has ultra modern nursing homes with all-English speaking staff, and they charge around $1000/month instead of the very common $9000 or so here. Still, it's a stretch for most to send their ailing parents to India for care, but some are finding it a preferable alternative to bankruptcy.

Heart surgery in South Korea, Singapore, etc. runs less than half of U.S. costs. Often the care for common, but serious medical care is as good or better. What the U.S. excels at is the unusual, rare, or difficult treatments. For common ailments, many countries are cheaper and as good.

Personally, I get my no-line transitional lensed glasses (with all the coatings) for $70 to $80, by having friends send them from Korea. If we know we have extensive dentistry to do, we can often take a trip to Korea and pay the same for the whole trip as we'd pay just for the dentistry here.

None of what I said is relevent to nationalized healthcare, though. Another issue, most countries we compare to that have it are the size of one of our states. Would a national healthcare system in the U.S. run anything like one in Canada? Not so sure. And, Canada's system, while popular overall, is running into financial pressures. Often, rather than modernize, it economizes. And, if it does modernize in an area, taxes go up.

There's just no such thing as free healthcare. Wish there was a way of taking more consistent and systematic care of our poor, without burdening everyone with a single-payer system. Wish it wouldn't eat up 17% of our economy. Wish a lot things...pray for our leaders, per Rom. 13

[john doe]

Interesting FT, that you didn't find one article that says anything about people coming to the US for their healthcare needs. Because I could have sworn that a couple years ago I read about health clinics on the northern US border being swamped with Canadians who couldn't get prompt medical attention, and also about hospitals along the southern US border being swamped with illegals coming here just to have babies in the US. Partly to get US citizenship for their babies, but mainly because they wouldn't be charged for it. But maybe that was just my imagination. Do you have any real numbers or are you just spinning things to make your POV look better?

[FunkyTown]

Originally Posted by john doe

Interesting FT, that you didn't find one article that says anything about people coming to the US for their healthcare needs. Because I could have sworn that a couple years ago I read about health clinics on the northern US border being swamped with Canadians who couldn't get prompt medical attention, and also about hospitals along the southern US border being swamped with illegals coming here just to have babies in the US. Partly to get US citizenship for their babies, but mainly because they wouldn't be charged for it. But maybe that was just my imagination. Do you have any real numbers or are you just spinning things to make your POV look better?

Wait... So you're asking if I have any numbers of people who are illegally using the Canadian system? You mean like... They're asked 'Are you American pretending to be Canadian to get free Health Care' and they checked yes?

No. Do you have any hard numbers of illegals working in the US where they checked something saying 'I am an illegal immigrant'?

All I have are what the news reports. And they're reporting poor people coming to Canada, along with several people on here who admitted going to other countries for health care. In fact, by 'Spinning', I assume you mean when I admitted Canadians are going to the US for quicker service because they had money?

Or are you just spinning things with ridiculous questions to make your POV look better?

I've never seen a person doing such a poor job of side stepping an obvious question in my life.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by FunkyTown

Americans Filching Free Health Care in Canada - The New York Times

Here's an example, JohnDoe. Make of it what you will, but it does happen.

Perhaps Canada needs to erect miles of fence to keep the poor huddled masses of Americans yearning for health care on their own wretched shores.

The nerve of those Yankees!!!