Women that are abused deserve the abuse?

[ryanh]

What is your opinion?



That only women who make a stand and stop the cycle of abuse against them deserve to be treated better?

Or . . .

All women, no matter what their emotional, social, or mental status deserve to never be abused?



I’m of the opinion that any and all daughters of Heavenly Father don’t deserve to be emotionally or physically abused, cheated on, or otherwise offended. (by the same token, men don’t ‘deserve’ it either, no matter what they are guilty of)

I’m also of the opinion that taking the stance that if a person is not getting themselves out of the cycle of abuse = a person that deserves to be abused is tatamount to whipping a person for being a victim! Kind of reminds me of that poor lady in Saudi Arabia that was punished for being raped! Yuk!

In my mind, I’m making a very clear distinction between punishment (earned/deserved) and abuse (not deserved or earned, out of one’s own control). So, please don’t mix up the two without making the distinction. Perhaps some believe that remaining in a bad relationship and hoping a spouse is truly repentant is deserved punishment? That sounds so much to me like the enabling and justification that abusers use to justify their abusive actions!

Am I missing something?

[Maxel]

I don't think you're missing something in the context of what you've posted here.

However, women who don't take the courage to escape abused relationships are telling themselves- and the world- that they think they deserve it for one reason or another. This seems a paradox- those being abused are often the first ones to understand that the abuse is unjust- yet the cause seems to be rooted deep in emotional and spiritual issues. I'm not surprised that people abused as children often (unintentionally) seek out abusive spouses and friends.

[beefche]

ryan, I'm not sure I understand what you are asking, but absolutely no one deserves to be abused. That doesn't mean that sometimes people do things that have consequences of abuse. If someone is abused and stays in the environment, then the consequences are that person will likely be abused.

It's like do women who dress provacatively get what they ask for if they are raped. My answer is no, most women don't ask to be raped. But, a consequence of dressing provacatively may be that a man inclined to violence against women may choose her to exert that violence.

[ryanh]

Originally Posted by Maxel

However, women who don't take the courage to escape abused relationships are telling themselves- and the world- that they think they deserve it for one reason or another.

I disagree with such a blanket statement to cover all situations. I know of some who desperately want to escape, but either don't know how, are terrified for their lives, or are otherwise complicated from doing so. Try telling those women "they must deep down think they deserve it". Not a very loving or understanding stance IMO.

Originally Posted by Maxel

This seems a paradox- those being abused are often the first ones to understand that the abuse is unjust- yet the cause seems to be rooted deep in emotional and spiritual issues. I'm not surprised that people abused as children often (unintentionally) seek out abusive spouses and friends.

Having minored in psychology, and loving study of the topic, I'm well aware of the potential for paradoxial nature of the situation. Whether rooted in dysfunction or not, I have a hard time accepting the idea of calling the victim the perpetrator.

[hordak]

assuming i know the post/thread your referring to i think your reading it wrong. The idea is that "you" (in this case the abused) teach people how to treat you.

it's not that the people who stay deserve it, but that the ones who leave are telling the abuser, you can't treat me like that.

i'm sure a simple personal message would clear this up because you won't find a single person on this site that says "yes , it's cool to abuse someone as long as they take it."

[ryanh]

Oh no, Hordak, I'm not in the least offended by LM or his disagreement with the way I put my post. It's not like that at all. I simply don't agree with his disagreement , and think it is harsh stance. I'm checking if holes can be poked in my understanding.

A person "teaches" others how to abuse them? What about an infant? Their crying that aggravates the adult "teaches" the adult to get angry and slap them? This is precisely the line of thought and justification that abusers maintain, and allows them to continue. "It wasn't my fault - made me do it". "It was my wife's fault I called her stupid B because she ticked me off!" See what I mean? No one "teaches" an abuser how to be abusive. They are abusive because of who they are and their own internal dysfunctions.

[Loudmouth_Mormon]

I suppose my response to ryanh here touched off this thread:

I disagree with ryanh - women who put a stop to the cycle are the women who deserve better. If you keep yourself in your cycle, you are basically telling the world and everyone in it that you deserve this. From where I'm standing, you're not forgiving and moving on, you're forgiving and remaining a door-mat.

Of course we're merely using different definitions of the word 'deserves'. I'm coming at it from the "you refuse to wear your seatbelt and drive safely, and yet you complain when you get injured in an accident" angle. If you'd like, I'm happy to remove the word "deserves":

"Of course God doesn't want you to live this life. I think He's counting on you to get yourself out of it. Surely, the cheating manipulator isn't going to stop cheating and manipulating any time soon, and you've got a duty and stewardship to your kid to protect him from that sort of environment. Until you take matters into your hands, you can expect the same life you have now."

Better?

LM

[ryanh]

I not intending to ask you to change your post. (but that's a pretty good new paragraph IMO ) Sure, your post provided the impetus to create this thread, but I've seen others make similar statements before that I didn't feel comfortable reading, and even in the infancy of this thread, I still see things that bother me about 'calling a victim the perpetrator'. Again, I'm wondering if I'm just out in the far left field on this, or if this just might be something that I'm not considering.

[Just_A_Guy]

FWIW, my thoughts are pretty much in mind with Loudmouth_Mormon's amended sentiments.

No one deserves abuse; but abused persons should understand that from a practical (as opposed to moral) standpoint it is up to them to make the abuse stop. That's just the world we live in.

[prisonchaplain]

Originally Posted by beefche

It's like do women who dress provacatively get what they ask for if they are raped. My answer is no, most women don't ask to be raped. But, a consequence of dressing provacatively may be that a man inclined to violence against women may choose her to exert that violence.

IMHO the number of women raped because their clothes were so seductive the culprit just couldn't help himself would be < 1%.