A shot across the bow

[Universeman]

My dad is an atheist and yet some how I have managed to balance his way of looking at the universe without a god with my conviction that there is indeed one. I am currently working towards a BS in Space Studies which is giving me the opportunity to learn how the universe operates, I have learned that the universe in its current state gets along just fine with out any intervention from Heavenly Father whatsoever, in fact from the point of view of an atheist everything about our existence can be explained by the processes of natural causes and the life on this planet is nothing more then a result of the laws of physics and evolution, a chance occurrence of random events.

The point I want to make is that we should not rush to judgment simply because someone does not think the same way we do because the fact of the matter is that even though I am as certain as I can possibly be that this gospel is true, that does not mean that we have a monopoly on all truth and that there is far more that we don’t know about the universe and the gospel then what we do know, I have no idea how my father, my brothers or any one else, my self included will be judged when it is all said and done. It seems incredibly selfish and unfair for us to say that we have a inside track on exaltation simply because we are lucky enough to be Gods chosen few, tantamount to baptizing babies IMO. On the other hand perhaps we aren’t God’s chosen people, but rather we are the people who have chosen to follow God and he has offered us the opportunity to be his servants by being a part of his kingdom here on Earth and doing his will for the salvation of man, what think you?

[Godless]

I think you have a very admirable viewpoint.

[Snow]

Originally Posted by Universeman

I am currently working towards a BS in Space Studies which is giving me the opportunity to learn how the universe operates, I have learned that the universe in its current state gets along just fine with out any intervention from Heavenly Father whatsoever,

Yeah - I'm gonna have to call bull on that one. You didn't "learn" that. You simply have a theory or have faith that such is true. Science is incapable of demonstrating it.

[Universeman]

The title of this post was in jest btw , and I am not sure what “bull” your referring to Snow, that the universe does require God's intervention to operate? At any rate all I’m saying is that an atheist can explain how the universe operates with out the need for God to cause it to happen in the way that we observe it.

I just want to clarify that I do have a strong testimony of the gospel, I simply have a tendency to be curious about the hard to answer stuff, you know the stuff that we have to try and figure out for our selves the best we are able, I don't shy away from criticism about what we believe because I have a strong testimony. If I am not making sense please ask me to clarify what I am trying to say is all I ask. Lets all be fonzie's here.

[Snow]

I was responding to what you say you learned. I dispute that such a thing can be learned - it can only be guessed at.

[Universeman]

Ya I'll buy that Snow, I'll be the first to admit that we completely lack the understanding as to how Heavenly Father organizes matter into habitable worlds, after all we don't even know what the universe is made of. According to our best instruments 96% of the universe consists of unknown materials and processes given that we do not know what Dark Matter or Dark Energy is. Astronomers can only account for 4% of the universe(AKA the stuff that we and all the stars are made of), Dark matters presence is infered by its gravitational effects on the orbital velocities of galaxies, and Dark energy is somehow accelerating the expansion of the entire universe, that’s a pretty big gap in our knowledge. I hope its ok if I have a tendency to go off the deep end, what can I say I cannot help my curious nature.

[BenRaines]

Universeman,

I believe, don't know but believe, that Snow's point is that you can believe that is how things operate, as far as universe operating without God's hand but to know that is impossible. As you have stated science does not even know what the bulk of the universe consists of.

Welcome and have a great time posting.

Ben Raines

[talisyn]

God, being God, knows full well how to build a perpetual-motion machine

[Bini]

Originally Posted by Universeman

My dad is an atheist and yet some how I have managed to balance his way of looking at the universe without a god with my conviction that there is indeed one. I am currently working towards a BS in Space Studies which is giving me the opportunity to learn how the universe operates, I have learned that the universe in its current state gets along just fine with out any intervention from Heavenly Father whatsoever, in fact from the point of view of an atheist everything about our existence can be explained by the processes of natural causes and the life on this planet is nothing more then a result of the laws of physics and evolution, a chance occurrence of random events.

The point I want to make is that we should not rush to judgment simply because someone does not think the same way we do because the fact of the matter is that even though I am as certain as I can possibly be that this gospel is true, that does not mean that we have a monopoly on all truth and that there is far more that we don’t know about the universe and the gospel then what we do know, I have no idea how my father, my brothers or any one else, my self included will be judged when it is all said and done. It seems incredibly selfish and unfair for us to say that we have a inside track on exaltation simply because we are lucky enough to be Gods chosen few, tantamount to baptizing babies IMO. On the other hand perhaps we aren’t God’s chosen people, but rather we are the people who have chosen to follow God and he has offered us the opportunity to be his servants by being a part of his kingdom here on Earth and doing his will for the salvation of man, what think you?

I agree with that point.

[Universeman]

Originally Posted by talisyn

God, being God, knows full well how to build a perpetual-motion machine

In Doctrine and covenants 93:29, the prophet also writes, 'Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be." In addition, the Prophet taught, "There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is fine and pure" (131:7). Combining these teachings, "spirit element," also called intelligence, or the light (energy attributes) is transformed into spirit bodies (pure, refined matter), but it cannot be created of destroyed. In other words, and change in energy attributes corresponds to a change in mass. It seems the prophet Joseph clearly understood and taught this principle.
Joseph Smith: The Prophet, The Man - Joseph Smith on Modern Science

Professor Sir Eric Ash
The law of conservation of energy states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant, although it may change forms, into heat or kinetic energy for example.
In short, law states that energy cannot be created or destroyed.
Denying its validity would undermine not just little bits of science - the whole edifice would be no more. All of the technology on which we built the modern world would lie in ruins.
There is no flexibility in the acceptance of the law as true - at all times, and in all circumstances.
BBC NEWS | Technology | The perpetual myth of free energy

In essence Joseph Smith himself taught that a perpetual motion machine would violate Heavenly Fathers own laws regarding the nature of matter and energy. BTW that’s a very interesting article from the BYU Religious Studies Center about how the teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith taught are still in complete harmony with what we currently know about modern science.

Yay time for conference!