Chai Tea

[MarginOfError]

Originally Posted by wildbean98

You're arguing semantics now.

Well, actually, I haven't been. That's what you've been doing. But if it makes you feel any better, I'll argue semantics and point out that you're the one who is intent on focusing on the definition of the word "tea." So by the definition of arguing semantics, it is you that is arguing semantics (and now me as well).

Urban Dictionary: Semantics

If you don't care about definitions then it will be impossible for you to understand the instructions we have been given. Because the use of the word "tea" has been convoluted in modern english you must understand what the words actually mean, since you will not get the actual meanings from regular conversational english.

But you leave unanswered the question of what the speaker's intent was when he said "tea." How are we to know if he meant the dictionary definition of tea and not the colloquial definition of tea? You are retrospectively interpreting the meaning of a statement by applying a literal definition and then stating that your interpretation is official Church policy. In essence, you're saying, "This is God's interpretation because the dictionary said so." Am I the only one that sees the incredible irony in such an approach?

There is only one plant called a tea plant. All tea is made from that plant. Tea is the common name for the plant. The scientific name is Camellia sinensis.

If all tea is made from Camellia sinesis. Except for herbal tea. But that isn't actually tea. So MOE should stop arguing semantics.

When you look at a list of ingredients, you rarely will see just the word "tea" by itself, nor will you see the actual name Camellia sinensis. What you will usually see are the four main types of tea: black tea, green tea, white tea, and oolong tea.

It doesn't matter whether you use the term "tea", "Camellia Sinensis", "black tea", or "green tea", they are all the same thing. When I listed the four main types of tea my intention was to help others identify tea in a list of ingredients. Rarely will ingredients say just "tea" and rarely will they use the scientific name.

That's a very useful piece of information if that's what the Church's official policy is. I'll be sure to pass it on as soon as you provide a reference to verify your claim that this is the true interpretation of the Word of Wisdom.

-The Word of Wisdom: A Modern Interpretation (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1937)

Again, that generic use of the word tea. With no semantics attached to it, how am I supposed to know what that really means? In the absence of any official interpretation from the Church, an individual may only come up with his or her own interpretation. But whatever that interpretation is, it is still only his or her own interpretation and not the officially sanctioned interpretation of the Church.

-Doctrine & Covenants, Student Manual (Institute), p. 207

It has been made very clear that we should not consume drinks made with tea. Just because some people call a drink by the wrong word does not mean there is any confusion in what the prophets have told us.

The problem is you still haven't demonstrated that the prophets weren't calling it by the wrong name. Nor have you demonstrated that herbal teas were never intended to be a part of the prohibition. You've only demonstrated the use of the word tea and applied a convenient definition. However, the matter cannot be definitively resolved without clarification of what the speaker intended when he said whatever he said.

Again, in the absence of a clarifying statement, the best we can do is apply our own interpretation. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having our own interpretation. There is something very wrong with saying that our own interpretations are sanctioned by the Church.

So, do you have any documentation that clarifies that these men never intended that herbal teas be included in the prohibitions of the Word of Wisdom? If so, please share them. If not, please stop saying that the Church has a position on the issue.

"Can I get a coke?"
"Sure, what kind?"
"I'll have a Sprite."

So if the Prophet said coke was against the WoW, would you then argue that we also couldn't drink sprite?

Actually, I would argue that this scenario offers no definitive information about what is or isn't prohibited by the Word of Wisdom unless I could provide a documented and verifiable reference to said information. And until I could provide that documented reference, I wouldn't push my own interpretation as the officially sanctioned interpretation of the Church.

[ozzy]

I guess the things that I always go with are these. First of all, the Brethren have never, in a doctrine revealing setting, given a reason for not drinking coffee or tea. Any reason given is pure speculation or is related to scientific discoveries that effectively say what the word of wisdom does about keeping things in moderation as opposed to excess. Second, the word of wisdom mentions using barley to make mild beverages. Now we know 2 things relating to this. First, when the WoW refers to strong beverages, it is refering to alcoholic ones. Second is that barley is used to make beer which is a strong beverage. So how do we keep it mild? I can't imagine we would just chuck a bunch of barley into a cup of water and drink it. So I figure you have to boil it, ie. make a barley 'tea'. I figure as well that if we can make 'tea' with barley and the word of wisdom says to use herbs, then we are allowed to make herbal 'tea'. Just keep the tea leaves out of the picture and you will do fine.

[wildbean98]

There is only one plant in the world that is called Tea. All tea is made from that plant. Joseph Smith and others have said to not drink tea. Are you seriously having difficulty figuring out what they meant?

Sounds like you've got something to pray about, Margin.

I've done my research. I've spoken to my bishop and my stake president who is also a neurologist who helped my wife figure out that "tea" was causing her migraines. The pain she was in was not trivial, and not even narcotic painkillers would make it go away. No doctor could diagnose the cause. It wasn't until I decided to come back to the church and began discussing the WoW with the missionaries that all of this came about. She is now pain free, thanks to the WoW. No other tisane has caused her to have migraines either. We regularly enjoy Red Chai with Rooibos and honey.

If that's not enough for you then you need to talk to someone else about it. Your Bishop, Stake President, or even Heavenly Father should do.

[eternalpromise516]

this has been a very interesting discussion with very good points made by all sides.

however,

tea is tea, no matter how you try to break it down into it's rainbow of colors (whether it be red, green, black, purple for all i care, maybe even neon pink, whatever) or if it's some other deritive thereof (sp? too lazy to go back and look) or whatever.

the Word of Wisdom says we're not to drink tea. doesn't say why, but it does say to not drink it. i'm like the OP, i avoid anything that even sounds like it has tea or the word tea in it, same for coffee, etc. if you have to ask, then why even bother taking the risk?

to each his own though, i guess. happy halloween everyone!

[Moksha]

I wish the postum plant had not gone extinct.

[hordak]

Originally Posted by ozzy

I guess the things that I always go with are these. First of all, the Brethren have never, in a doctrine revealing setting, given a reason for not drinking coffee or tea. Any reason given is pure speculation or is related to scientific discoveries that effectively say what the word of wisdom does about keeping things in moderation as opposed to excess. Second, the word of wisdom mentions using barley to make mild beverages. Now we know 2 things relating to this. First, when the WoW refers to strong beverages, it is refering to alcoholic ones. Second is that barley is used to make beer which is a strong beverage. So how do we keep it mild? I can't imagine we would just chuck a bunch of barley into a cup of water and drink it. So I figure you have to boil it, ie. make a barley 'tea'. I figure as well that if we can make 'tea' with barley and the word of wisdom says to use herbs, then we are allowed to make herbal 'tea'. Just keep the tea leaves out of the picture and you will do fine.

Beer is naturally a "mild beverage" with about 5% ABV when compared to "strong drinks" (liqurer) containing 40% and up ABV that can be used "wash bodies".

Not saying beers ok now but beer is not a "strong drink" Strong drinks can be used to wash bodies, beer doesn't contain enough ethanol to be used that way.

[wildbean98]

Originally Posted by eternalpromise516

tea is tea, no matter how you try to break it down into it's rainbow of colors (whether it be red, green, black, purple for all i care, maybe even neon pink, whatever) or if it's some other deritive thereof (sp? too lazy to go back and look) or whatever.

You are correct that tea is tea but the important thing is to remember that just because someone calls a drink by the wrong name doesn't mean you can't drink it. It's unfortunate that tea is never labled just "tea" but by color according to how the tea plant is handled because it can lead to confusion if you don't understand that it's all just tea.

Tea is bad. Infusions and tisane aren't. Sure it's a matter of personal choice what you consume and what you don't, but Bigelow Lemon Tea isn't against the WoW even though calling it tea is a misnomer. If it is then lemonade has to be as well.

[Dravin]

Originally Posted by wildbean98

You are correct that tea is tea but the important thing is to remember that just because someone calls a drink by the wrong name doesn't mean you can't drink it.

Thank goodness for that, I loves me my Ginger Beer/Ale and Apple Beer. Yum.