The World Will End In 2012

[Traveler]

Perhaps the Mayans did have priesthood to provide revelation. Perhaps the revelation came from a previous Nephite prediction.

but i dont think 2012 will be the end of the world or a changing of an era.[/b]

Just for fun there are some rather interesting parallels in the calendar given in the Book of Enoch - The calendar used by the people of the ancient Dead Sea Scrolls - The calendar used in ancient Israel (not the Pharisees) at the temple and the Mayan calendar that explain all kinds of things - like 7th heaven. i.e. There are 6 gates of heaven through the sun passes each morning and evening to cross the sky. This is the solar month calendar and the sun passes through each gate twice to complete a year cycle. The 7th gate was believed to be unseen and the gate to the heaven where G-d lives. Thus the 7th heaven.

The Traveler

[Abraham]

Perhaps the Mayans did have priesthood to provide revelation. Perhaps the revelation came from a previous Nephite prediction.

but i dont think 2012 will be the end of the world or a changing of an era.[/b]

I like the way you cover your tracks. For example if they did have the Nephite info it would be a prophecy not a prediction. Also, you say it might be in 2012 but might not be either. So I guess we don't know either way. I suggest we let the Lord take care of it. It reminds of those who posted that April 6, 2000 was going to be the beginning of the 2nd Coming, or that there were only going to be 12 Prophets since that made a 'quorum'. Such folly. In my opinion it will denegrate so naturally, as is evident in today's environement that the frogs will not notice the water is beginning to boil. For example, if the Yellowstone Caldera blows it will be 1500 times larger than (worse case) Mt. St. Helens (1500 cubic km vs. 3 cubic km at MSH). Anyway, it is going to be a great ride.

Abraham (Your bro in the go)

[Traveler]

I like the way you cover your tracks. For example if they did have the Nephite info it would be a prophecy not a prediction. Also, you say it might be in 2012 but might not be either. So I guess we don't know either way. I suggest we let the Lord take care of it. It reminds of those who posted that April 6, 2000 was going to be the beginning of the 2nd Coming, or that there were only going to be 12 Prophets since that made a 'quorum'. Such folly. In my opinion it will denegrate so naturally, as is evident in today's environement that the frogs will not notice the water is beginning to boil. For example, if the Yellowstone Caldera blows it will be 1500 times larger than (worse case) Mt. St. Helens (1500 cubic km vs. 3 cubic km at MSH). Anyway, it is going to be a great ride.

Abraham (Your bro in the go)[/b]

Well thought out post. However, you missed an newly discovered volcano at the south pole (the primary reason for global warming?) It is a young volcano and the world's 2 largest - next to Yellowstone. It could errupt with a major erruption any time - for sure it will sometime in the next 500 years. When it errupts it will melt enough ice to rase the oceans from 12 to 20 feet which would displace 80% of the world's population.

Also according to timetables given in the Book of Revelation there will be a 10 and 1/2 year period prior to the second comming that will be divided into 3 parts of 3 and 1/2 years. If one is to believe the Bible they would know that the 10 and 1/2 year period has not started and thus the world cannot end by 2012.

The Traveler

[Abraham]

Well thought out post. However, you missed an newly discovered volcano at the south pole (the primary reason for global warming?) It is a young volcano and the world's 2 largest - next to Yellowstone. It could errupt with a major erruption any time - for sure it will sometime in the next 500 years. When it errupts it will melt enough ice to rase the oceans from 12 to 20 feet which would displace 80% of the world's population.

Also according to timetables given in the Book of Revelation there will be a 10 and 1/2 year period prior to the second comming that will be divided into 3 parts of 3 and 1/2 years. If one is to believe the Bible they would know that the 10 and 1/2 year period has not started and thus the world cannot end by 2012.

The Traveler[/b]

Hi T,

I was impressed with the spirit of your post. It was very thought provoking, as I have never heard of the SP Volcano. I will have to do my homework. They will probably work together - just to compel people to come to Christ. JK Agreed that the earth cannot 'end' in 2012 but some have postulated that the end might start then. To me it sounds like the Charles Taze Russel pedicting the 2nd comming in 1914 and when He did not comply, said, "Oh, Oh, since the Archduke Ferdinand was assesinated then UHHHH WW1 started so that is the beginning of the 2nd coming, so I was right, Ahh, yeah thats it. To me if we each are progressing toward translation See Col 1:3, then we can be confident and calm in the Faith, not Lo here Lo there. Thank you for your response. I hope all have their supply and are prepared. I wonder what a lb. of molasses would go for in a barter eonomy. hee hee.

Abraham

[Abraham]

Well thought out post. However, you missed an newly discovered volcano at the south pole (the primary reason for global warming?) It is a young volcano and the world's 2 largest - next to Yellowstone. It could errupt with a major erruption any time - for sure it will sometime in the next 500 years. When it errupts it will melt enough ice to rase the oceans from 12 to 20 feet which would displace 80% of the world's population.

Also according to timetables given in the Book of Revelation there will be a 10 and 1/2 year period prior to the second comming that will be divided into 3 parts of 3 and 1/2 years. If one is to believe the Bible they would know that the 10 and 1/2 year period has not started and thus the world cannot end by 2012.

The Traveler[/b]

BTW - Thank you, thank you, thank you for not referring to the Book of Revelations (it does not have an 's') Also, did you know that the, for the lack of a better word, title page of the Book of Revelation when it refers to John the Divine, it is a ajective not a noun so to make this clearer it could read, or at least be unerstood to read "John the Diviner'.

Cool huh?

Abraham

[drjme]

Well, only about there being only a few things different. There will be a lot of things different- I know that- but I do think that life will still go on for those who are prepared- we should have our year's supply, 72 hour emergency kits, and so forth... my point is just that we shouldn't think that because it will all be destroyed and taken away from us anyway, that we shouldn't plan and save up and live as if life will continue on for us.

I guess I had a weird way of making my point.[/b]

Ummm, maybe you need to read this vision from president of the church, John Taylor.
(please be advised that this is detailed and may be uncomfortable to read):





This is a vision John Taylor saw of events that are still to come. From the journal of Wilford Woodruff (Dec 16, 1877).

This is a vision John Taylor saw of events that are still to come. From the journal of Wilford Woodruff (Dec 16, 1877).

I went to bed as usual at about 7:30PM. I had been read*ing a revela*tion in the French lan*guage. My mind was calm, more so than usual if possible, so I composed myself for sleep, but could not. I felt a strange feeling come over me and apparently be*came partially uncon*scious. Still I was not asleep, nor ex*actly awake, with dreary feeling. The first thing that I recognized was that I was in the tabernacle of Ogden, Utah. I was sit*ting in the back part of the build*ing for fear they would call on me to preach, which however they did, for after sing*ing the second time they called me to the stand.

I arose to speak and said that I did*n't know that I had anything es*pecially to say, ex*cept to bear my tes*timony of the Latter-day work, when all at once it seemed as if I was lifted out of myself and I said, "Yes, I have something to say and that is this: Some of my brethren have been ask*ing, "What is be*coming of us? What is the wind blowing?" I will answer you right here what is coming very shortly."

I was then in a dream, im*mediately in the city of Salt Lake, and wandering around in the streets and in all parts of the city, and on the doors of the houses I found badges of mourn*ing and I could not find a house but was in mourning. I passed my own house and found the same sign there, and I asked the ques*tion, "Is that me that is dead?" Someone gave me the an*swer, "No, you will get through it all."

It seemed strange to me that I saw no person in the streets in all my wan*dering around the coun*try. I seemed to be in their houses with the sick, but saw no funeral proces*sion, nor anything of the kind, but the city looking still and as though the people were praying. And it seemed that they had controlled the dis*ease, but what the dis*ease was I did not learn; it was not made known to me. I then looked over the country, north, east, south, and west, and the same mourning was in every land and in every place.

The next thing I knew I was just this side of Omaha. It seemed though I was above the earth, and look*ing down upon it. As I passed along upon my way east I saw the road full of people, mostly women, with just what they could carry in bundles on their backs, trav*eling to the moun*tains on foot. I won*dered how they would get through with such a small pack on their backs. It was re*markable to us[?] that there were so few men among them. It didn't seem to me as though the cars were run*ning, the rails looked rusty and the roads aban*doned; and I have no con*ception of how I traveled as I looked down upon the peo*ple.

I continued east by the way of Omaha and Council Bluffs, which were full of disease. There were women every*where. The state of Illinois and Mis*souri were in a tumult, men killing one an*other, women joining the fight*ing, fam*ily against family in the most horrid manner.

I imagined next that I was in Wash*ington and I found desola*tion there. The White House was empty and the Halls of Congress the same, and everything in ru*ins. The people seemed to have left the city and left it to take care of itself.

I was in Baltimore. In the square where the Monument of 1812 stands in front of the Char*les Hotel. I saw dead piled up so as to fill the street square. I saw mothers cutting the throats of their own children for their blood. I saw them ###### it from their throats to quench their own thirst and then lie down and die. The water of Che*sapeake Bay was stagnant, and the stench arising from it on ac*count of their throw*ing their bod*ies into it so terrible, that the very smell carried death with it. I saw no man ex*cept they were dead or dying in the streets and very few women. Those I saw were crazy and in an ugly condi*tion. Everywhere I went I beheld the same sights all over the city; it was terrible be*yond description to look upon.

I thought this must be the end; but no, I was seemingly in an instant in the city of Philadel*phia. There eve*rything was still. No living soul was there to greet me. It seemed the whole city was with*out any inhabi*tants. In the south of Chestnut Street and in fact everywhere I went, the putrefaction of the dead caused such a stench that it was impos*sible for any living thing to breathe, nor did I see any living thing in the city.

Next I found myself in Broadway, in the city of New York, and there it seemed the people had done the best they could to overcome the disease, but in wandering down Broad*way I saw the bodies of beautiful women lying, some dead and oth*ers in a dy*ing condition, on the sidewalks. I saw men come out of cellars and ravish the per*sons of some that were yet alive and then kill them and rob their bodies of all the valu*ables they had upon them. Then before they could get back to the cellar they would roll over a time or two and die in ag*ony. In some of the back streets I saw them kill some of their own offspring and eat their raw flesh, and in a few minutes die them*selves. Every*where I went I saw the same scene of horror and de*struction and death and rap*ine.

No car*riages, buggies, or cars were running; but death and de*struc*tion were every*where. Then I saw fire start and just at that moment a mighty East wind sprang up and car*ried the flames over the city and it burned until there was not a sin*gle building left standing there, even down to the waters edge. Wharves and shipping all seemed to burn and follow in common destruction where the "great city" was a short time ago. The stench from the bodies that were burn*ing was so great that it was carried a long dis*tance cross the Hudson Bay and carried death and destruction wherever it pene*trated. I cannot paint in words the horror that seemed to compass me about; it was beyond description of man.

I sup*posed this was the end; but it was not. I was given to understand the same horror was being en*acted all over the coun*try, east, west, north, and south. Few were left alive, still there were some.

Immediately after I seemed to be standing on the left bank of the Mis*souri River, opposite e the City of In*de*pendence, but there was no city. I saw the whole state of Missouri and Illi*nois and all of Iowa, a complete desert with no living being there. A short dis*tance from the river how*ever, I saw twelve men dressed in temple robes, stand*ing in a square or nearly so (and I under*stood it repre*sented the Twelve Gates of the New Jerusa*lem.) Their hands were uplifted in consecration of the ground and lay*ing the corner stone of the tem*ple. I saw myraids of an*gels hovering over them, and saw also an immense pil*lar of clouds over them and heard the angels singing the most heav*enly music. The words were "Now is estab*lished the King*dom of God and his Christ, which shall never more be thrown down."

I saw people com*ing from the river and from the desert places a long way off to help build the temple and it seemed that hosts of an*gels all helped to get material to build with and I saw some of them who wore temple clothes come and build the tem*ple and the city, and all the time I saw the great pillar of clouds hovering over the place.

Instantly, however, I found my*self again in the taber*nacle at Ogden. And yet, I could still see the building go on and I got quite animated in call*ing on the people in the tabernacle to listen to the beautiful music, for the an*gels were singing the same music I had heard be*fore. "Now is estab*lished the King*dom of God and his Christ, which shall never more be thrown down."

At this I seemed to stagger back from the pulpit and Brother Francis D. Richards and some others caught my arm and prevented me from falling. Then I fin*ished so abruptly. Still even then I had not fainted, but was simply ex*hausted.

They I rolled over in bed and awoke just as the city clock was strik*ing twelve.

[Abraham]

Ummm, maybe you need to read this vision from president of the church, John Taylor.
(please be advised that this is detailed and may be uncomfortable to read):
This is a vision John Taylor saw of events that are still to come. From the journal of Wilford Woodruff (Dec 16, 1877).

This is a vision John Taylor saw of events that are still to come. From the journal of Wilford Woodruff (Dec 16, 1877).

I went to bed as usual at about 7:30PM. I had been read*ing a revela*tion in the French lan*guage. My mind was calm, more so than usual if possible, so I composed myself for sleep, but could not. I felt a strange feeling come over me and apparently be*came partially uncon*scious. Still I was not asleep, nor ex*actly awake, with dreary feeling. The first thing that I recognized was that I was in the tabernacle of Ogden, Utah. I was sit*ting in the back part of the build*ing for fear they would call on me to preach, which however they did, for after sing*ing the second time they called me to the stand.

I arose to speak and said that I did*n't know that I had anything es*pecially to say, ex*cept to bear my tes*timony of the Latter-day work, when all at once it seemed as if I was lifted out of myself and I said, "Yes, I have something to say and that is this: Some of my brethren have been ask*ing, "What is be*coming of us? What is the wind blowing?" I will answer you right here what is coming very shortly."

I was then in a dream, im*mediately in the city of Salt Lake, and wandering around in the streets and in all parts of the city, and on the doors of the houses I found badges of mourn*ing and I could not find a house but was in mourning. I passed my own house and found the same sign there, and I asked the ques*tion, "Is that me that is dead?" Someone gave me the an*swer, "No, you will get through it all."

It seemed strange to me that I saw no person in the streets in all my wan*dering around the coun*try. I seemed to be in their houses with the sick, but saw no funeral proces*sion, nor anything of the kind, but the city looking still and as though the people were praying. And it seemed that they had controlled the dis*ease, but what the dis*ease was I did not learn; it was not made known to me. I then looked over the country, north, east, south, and west, and the same mourning was in every land and in every place.

The next thing I knew I was just this side of Omaha. It seemed though I was above the earth, and look*ing down upon it. As I passed along upon my way east I saw the road full of people, mostly women, with just what they could carry in bundles on their backs, trav*eling to the moun*tains on foot. I won*dered how they would get through with such a small pack on their backs. It was re*markable to us[?] that there were so few men among them. It didn't seem to me as though the cars were run*ning, the rails looked rusty and the roads aban*doned; and I have no con*ception of how I traveled as I looked down upon the peo*ple.

I continued east by the way of Omaha and Council Bluffs, which were full of disease. There were women every*where. The state of Illinois and Mis*souri were in a tumult, men killing one an*other, women joining the fight*ing, fam*ily against family in the most horrid manner.

I imagined next that I was in Wash*ington and I found desola*tion there. The White House was empty and the Halls of Congress the same, and everything in ru*ins. The people seemed to have left the city and left it to take care of itself.

I was in Baltimore. In the square where the Monument of 1812 stands in front of the Char*les Hotel. I saw dead piled up so as to fill the street square. I saw mothers cutting the throats of their own children for their blood. I saw them ###### it from their throats to quench their own thirst and then lie down and die. The water of Che*sapeake Bay was stagnant, and the stench arising from it on ac*count of their throw*ing their bod*ies into it so terrible, that the very smell carried death with it. I saw no man ex*cept they were dead or dying in the streets and very few women. Those I saw were crazy and in an ugly condi*tion. Everywhere I went I beheld the same sights all over the city; it was terrible be*yond description to look upon.

I thought this must be the end; but no, I was seemingly in an instant in the city of Philadel*phia. There eve*rything was still. No living soul was there to greet me. It seemed the whole city was with*out any inhabi*tants. In the south of Chestnut Street and in fact everywhere I went, the putrefaction of the dead caused such a stench that it was impos*sible for any living thing to breathe, nor did I see any living thing in the city.

Next I found myself in Broadway, in the city of New York, and there it seemed the people had done the best they could to overcome the disease, but in wandering down Broad*way I saw the bodies of beautiful women lying, some dead and oth*ers in a dy*ing condition, on the sidewalks. I saw men come out of cellars and ravish the per*sons of some that were yet alive and then kill them and rob their bodies of all the valu*ables they had upon them. Then before they could get back to the cellar they would roll over a time or two and die in ag*ony. In some of the back streets I saw them kill some of their own offspring and eat their raw flesh, and in a few minutes die them*selves. Every*where I went I saw the same scene of horror and de*struction and death and rap*ine.

No car*riages, buggies, or cars were running; but death and de*struc*tion were every*where. Then I saw fire start and just at that moment a mighty East wind sprang up and car*ried the flames over the city and it burned until there was not a sin*gle building left standing there, even down to the waters edge. Wharves and shipping all seemed to burn and follow in common destruction where the "great city" was a short time ago. The stench from the bodies that were burn*ing was so great that it was carried a long dis*tance cross the Hudson Bay and carried death and destruction wherever it pene*trated. I cannot paint in words the horror that seemed to compass me about; it was beyond description of man.

I sup*posed this was the end; but it was not. I was given to understand the same horror was being en*acted all over the coun*try, east, west, north, and south. Few were left alive, still there were some.

Immediately after I seemed to be standing on the left bank of the Mis*souri River, opposite e the City of In*de*pendence, but there was no city. I saw the whole state of Missouri and Illi*nois and all of Iowa, a complete desert with no living being there. A short dis*tance from the river how*ever, I saw twelve men dressed in temple robes, stand*ing in a square or nearly so (and I under*stood it repre*sented the Twelve Gates of the New Jerusa*lem.) Their hands were uplifted in consecration of the ground and lay*ing the corner stone of the tem*ple. I saw myraids of an*gels hovering over them, and saw also an immense pil*lar of clouds over them and heard the angels singing the most heav*enly music. The words were "Now is estab*lished the King*dom of God and his Christ, which shall never more be thrown down."

I saw people com*ing from the river and from the desert places a long way off to help build the temple and it seemed that hosts of an*gels all helped to get material to build with and I saw some of them who wore temple clothes come and build the tem*ple and the city, and all the time I saw the great pillar of clouds hovering over the place.

Instantly, however, I found my*self again in the taber*nacle at Ogden. And yet, I could still see the building go on and I got quite animated in call*ing on the people in the tabernacle to listen to the beautiful music, for the an*gels were singing the same music I had heard be*fore. "Now is estab*lished the King*dom of God and his Christ, which shall never more be thrown down."

At this I seemed to stagger back from the pulpit and Brother Francis D. Richards and some others caught my arm and prevented me from falling. Then I fin*ished so abruptly. Still even then I had not fainted, but was simply ex*hausted.

They I rolled over in bed and awoke just as the city clock was strik*ing twelve.[/b]

Thank you for taking the time to post this ision/prophecy. Ihave read a few times and am in full agreement that this all will be fulfilled. His vision is pretty minor to what we will witness and experience. But as Nephi teaches, oppostion in all things the kingdom will be rolling forward as well. Have you heard of the 'Black Flu'? I know you have heard of the avian pandemic that is pending. Did you know that the Church (lds.org) has a link to the US government's Pandemic site? Kind of interesting I think. The head of the Church's medical/health post has said, "It is not an issue of if, but when." This could be somewhat compliant with President Taylor's vision. When my wife and chaired the recent Stake Preparedness Fair, the theme was if you are prepared you shall not panic. If you have ever seen widespread panic it it worse than you can imagine. When I alluded to the fact that not much will change I was referring to the way nature takes its course. It not like the four horsemen of the Apocolypse will come riding out of the north with lazer beam head gear. It will be pandemics, earthquakes, tsunamis (see Elder Eyering's address on Raising the Bar -cool reference to 'this is nothing as terrible as it is to what is on the horizon.' Anyway, being prepared is more than have a basement full of wheat, rice, beans, and milk. The terrible day of the Lord is not called that for nothing. Thank you for reminiding us of the gathering clouds. BTW - here in CO we just had a gunment walk into the missionary training center for the Faith Bible Center and kill two and woould two other or more." We were requested to pray for our brothers and sisters the Baptists today at Stake Conf. Amzaing days we llive in. It is true we will owe S&G an aplogy.

All the best!

Abraham

[Traveler]

There is a story circulating about Pres Monson that was presiding at a gathering of stake presidents. He opened the meeting to questions and one brother asked if Pres. Monson had any idea how close the end was.

Pres. Monson responded that he did not know how close it was - no idea at all. He stated that the 1st presidency did not know nor did any of the Apostles. He then suggested that the question be taken to any High Priest Group meeting in any ward on any given Sunday. He suggested that he was quite sure one of the HP would know.

The Traveler

[Abraham]

There is a story circulating about Pres Monson that was presiding at a gathering of stake presidents. He opened the meeting to questions and one brother asked if Pres. Monson had any idea how close the end was.

Pres. Monson responded that he did not know how close it was - no idea at all. He stated that the 1st presidency did not know nor did any of the Apostles. He then suggested that the question be taken to any High Priest Group meeting in any ward on any given Sunday. He suggested that he was quite sure one of the HP would know.

The Traveler[/b]

Hi Traveler,

I believe him 100% and I don't get a good feeling about those who want to reinterpret what he really meant of you know what I am referring to. However, if you look at the signs, and some of the other statements, we should be able to see the fig leaves and see that summer is nigh. If for logical reason only, I don't know how long HF can stand to have his children born without little chance to have the Gospel. What is it, there are maybe 100 times more births in the world than baptisms. The abuse (spousal and child), porn, how long can it last. Did you see my post where it was said, "it will all work out in the end, and if it hasn't worked out, it isn't the end. The most mosquoted scripture is Joshua 24:15 (I think it is) Choose you this say whom you will serve, whether the Gods of the Amorites in whom land you dwll, or the God of your fathers on the other side of the flood, as for me and my house, we will serve the lord. I think that middle part is very significant since there are many Gods in the world today also. I apologize if I quoted it wrong I just guessed from memory. If we are preapred and act as if it is far away, but are ready any day, we will all be okay.

You have a terrific spirit of compasion, empathy, and charity about you. You don't get riled, defensive, or vindictive.

All the best,

Abraham

[Traveler]

Hi Traveler,

I believe him 100% and I don't get a good feeling about those who want to reinterpret what he really meant of you know what I am referring to. However, if you look at the signs, and some of the other statements, we should be able to see the fig leaves and see that summer is nigh. If for logical reason only, I don't know how long HF can stand to have his children born without little chance to have the Gospel. What is it, there are maybe 100 times more births in the world than baptisms. The abuse (spousal and child), porn, how long can it last. Did you see my post where it was said, "it will all work out in the end, and if it hasn't worked out, it isn't the end. The most mosquoted scripture is Joshua 24:15 (I think it is) Choose you this say whom you will serve, whether the Gods of the Amorites in whom land you dwll, or the God of your fathers on the other side of the flood, as for me and my house, we will serve the lord. I think that middle part is very significant since there are many Gods in the world today also. I apologize if I quoted it wrong I just guessed from memory. If we are preapred and act as if it is far away, but are ready any day, we will all be okay.

You have a terrific spirit of compasion, empathy, and charity about you. You don't get riled, defensive, or vindictive.

All the best,

Abraham[/b]

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful response. I would like you to know that I am not a young person - not any more. I was once young when I served in the army during Vietnam - getting riled then got some of my friends killed. So I have been around. One thing I remember from my youth is sitting at stake conference in the Provo tabernacle when a speaker said something about the second coming. He said that he was sure it was near – perhaps not in his lifetime but he was sure that some the young people there would see it in their life time. I heard the same talk at a recent stake conference, but something was different. This time I was the same age as the old guy that was sure the youth would see the second coming during their lifetime.

I am sure Jesus will return on schedule. I doubt he will be late. However it is my understanding that the wickedness in the world is not part of his schedule. I believe it is the preparedness of the saints. Specifically the Latter-Day Saints that prepare by covenant as established by G-d chosen prophet. Though many look in scripture for the signs of great destruction and wickedness it is my belief that such study is misleading. Rather we should look to the events that surround the righteous Saints and the power of good that will shine from their homes like fire in darkness. And unlike many Saints, I do not believe this is the glow from their HDTV’s broadcasting the game on Super Bowl Sunday.

The Traveler