How do you define faith?

[DigitalShadow]

Originally Posted by the_jason

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." -- Hebrews 11:1

"And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true." --Alma 32:21

Faith, in my mind, is more important for one to obtain than is knowledge. If we have knowledge of things, there is no room left for progression. We become stagnant and begin to fall away. There's nothing left to aspire to.

Faith, however, requires a constant search for truth and knowledge, but never fully obtaining it. It allows spiritual progression and the ability to get closer to our Heavenly Father.

Not only that, but it's impossible to gain a perfect knowledge in this life. There are many things Father has not revealed to us and will not reveal to us until we have been faithful and endured to the end. Only those who've obeyed God's commandments to the best of their ability and received the required ordinances will know these mysteries.

I'm sorry, but I fundamentally disagree with that. Faith doesn't require a constant search for truth and knowledge, faith precludes it. Once you put your faith into something, you need not search any further or explore other possibilities as you've already decided what the truth is. The computer you typed your post on was not created through faith, it was made possible by the pursuit of knowledge. I contend that it is faith that makes us stagnant, not knowledge.

[the_jason]

Originally Posted by jadams_4040

But on the other hand personally for myself, I also have a knowledge of the truths of this church that is unshakable, Faith? yes i have always had that, because as you mentioned one must in order to continue to grow, but my knowledge of the truths are 1000 percent unchallengable. Maybe its because i have been blessed more than most in the field of confirmation, i do not know why, all i do know is that the knowledge is there. It is sure,natural,spiritual and wonderfully beautifull.

I see where you are coming from, but your statement is false. Your faith may be 1000 percent unchallengable, but there is room for more knowledge. Unless you were there, you don't KNOW. Like I said earlier, faith is more important than knowledge. The fact that one has faith instead of knowledge does not make their beliefs inferior. Quite the opposite, in fact. I'm not sure anyone other than the prophet and apostles really KNOW anything. We all rely on their knowledge to produce our own faith.

[the_jason]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

I fundamentally disagree with that. Faith doesn't require a constant search for truth and knowledge, faith precludes it. Once you put your faith into something, you need not search any further or explore other possibilities as you've already decided what the truth is. The computer you typed your post on was not created through faith, it was made possible by the pursuit of knowledge. I contend that it is faith that makes us stagnant, not knowledge.

I fundamentally do not care if you agree with me. As the scripture in Alma 32 so wonderfully explains, when we have faith we hope for things unseen. Hope implies an unsure knowledge, a quest for greater light. While my computer may have been built by knowledge, there had to first be faith that it could be built. Faith instills the pursuit of greater knowledge.

[Dr T]

I think faith is active. If passive, it is not a show of faith. I also think that faith is based on knowledge/something known. It has a basis. If not then it is an unfounded opinion/guess.

[DigitalShadow]

Originally Posted by the_jason

I fundamentally do not care if you agree with me. As the scripture in Alma 32 so wonderfully explains, when we have faith we hope for things unseen. Hope implies an unsure knowledge, a quest for greater light. While my computer may have been built by knowledge, there had to first be faith that it could be built. Faith instills the pursuit of greater knowledge.

Faith is not required for the pursuit of greater knowledge, only curiousity. Wondering what else is possible is not faith and certainly not the same faith required to wholly believe in a religion. Faith does not imply hope for things unseen, it implies unquestioning belief in things unseen.

[the_jason]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

Faith does not imply hope for things unseen, it implies unquestioning belief in things unseen.

Read Alma 32.

[DigitalShadow]

Originally Posted by the_jason

Read Alma 32.

I did read it but I still can't seem to understand it. Defining faith as "hope for things which are not seen, which are true" does not make sense to me no matter how much I look at it. It seems that if something is true, you don't need to hope for it. If it's unseen, then either you believe it on faith because you "feel" that is right, or you don't believe it, where does hope come into this?

(I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I honestly want help understanding this)

[the_jason]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

I did read it but I still can't seem to understand it. Defining faith as "hope for things which are not seen, which are true" does not make sense to me no matter how much I look at it. It seems that if something is true, you don't need to hope for it. If it's unseen, then either you believe it on faith because you "feel" that is right, or you don't believe it, where does hope come into this?

(I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I honestly want help understanding this)

I believe faith is hope turned into action. In other words, anyone can hope the gospel is true, but only those with faith that it's true signify it by their actions. They live the gospel. They don't just sit back and hope. Faith and hope are closely related, but faith requires more effort. Hope is the beginnings of faith. Faith also involves knowledge, though not perfect or complete knowledge.

Okay I'm not making any sense, but anyway....

[DigitalShadow]

Originally Posted by the_jason

I believe faith is hope turned into action. In other words, anyone can hope the gospel is true, but only those with faith that it's true signify it by their actions. They live the gospel. They don't just sit back and hope. Faith and hope are closely related, but faith requires more effort. Hope is the beginnings of faith. Faith also involves knowledge, though not perfect or complete knowledge.

Okay I'm not making any sense, but anyway....

So faith is acting on the hope that the gospel is true? That makes sense in a way. However I'm still left wondering which gospel to choose to hope for in the first place. There are a lot of different churches, and plenty that I still don't even know about. Nearly all of them advise to have faith in either their gospel or their interpretation of it. If none of them give empirical evidence of the trueness of their church, how is one to pick a church?

[the_jason]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

So faith is acting on the hope that the gospel is true? That makes sense in a way. However I'm still left wondering which gospel to choose to hope for in the first place. There are a lot of different churches, and plenty that I still don't even know about. Nearly all of them advise to have faith in either their gospel or their interpretation of it. If none of them give empirical evidence of the trueness of their church, how is one to pick a church?

I'm sure you're familiar with Joseph Smith. His manner of knowing which church to join. Obviously, commonfolk like myself probably won't have heavenly being appear to them, but we can use his method as an example.

First, Joseph and his family were religious. During the religious uprising which took place at that time, Joseph was able to visit and study different churches. He was as confused as you were. He wanted to be part of God's church, but didn't know how he could determine which one that was. Then, he came across a scripture in James (man, I feel like I'm on my mission again).

"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
"But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed." -- James 1:5-6

Joseph asked in faith and received his answer. You will receive an answer too, if you ask in faith. All the studying and asking people about their beliefs won't get you your answer. Only through faithful prayer to Heavenly Father and a confirmation of the Holy Ghost.