The Cross

[WANDERER]

Er....my national flag happens to have four crosses on it....Australia: Union Jack and Southern Cross. Is that offensive? Goodness, I hope not LOL.

[Rekhyt2238]

First of all, I want to thank all of you for your replies. I also want to say, that my issues are with the LDS church and that is as far as they go. I have a complete testimony of Christ and Christianity in general.

Originally Posted by Truegrits

All this said, is wearing or not wearing a cross such an important issue for you, that you would leave the Church?

No. The Cross, is one of many issues with the Church that I have. This one was simply the first one I had composed enough to ask. I am currently in a hotel, and unfortunately forgot my Bible at home, and I was not quite ready to ask other questions without it for some reference.

How long have you been a member? The reason I ask is this; remember why you were baptized. You received a testimony that the gospel as taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was truth, correct?

I was born and raised a mormon. I was baptized when I was nine, so eight years ago. To tell you the truth, I was baptized because I had faith in Christ, at least as much as you can at that age. I had no clue on the LDS faith. I was baptized in the LDS faith at that time, because I lived in Utah, and that is just what you do. Honestly I got enough weird looks when people found out that I was not baptized when I was eight.

Rediscover the joy that comes with the manifestation of the Holy Ghost that the Lord lives and has restored to us the fullness of His gospel so that we can return to Him.

I do not need to rediscover it, as Christ is already a big part of my life. It is simply the LDS faith that is not.

The cross aside.... are you a member of the church? If so how long? Do you have a testimony about anything? The Book of Mormon? Joseph Smith? I suspect that you don't if you are worried about religious symbols.

I just answered the first three so, The Book of Mormon? No. I tried reading it back when President Hinckley challenged everyone to. I tried, and I just did not get anything out of it. I recently tried again, with very similar results. Joseph Smith? No.

[bytor2112]

You say that Christ and Christianity is a big part of your life, are you active in church? Do you hold the Priesthood? You keep saying the "LDS faith". The LDS faith is Christianity- true pure Christianity. Do you need your Bible with you to expound on the "issues" you are having with some church doctrine? Our faith is an active faith. When we speak of having a testimony, it is more than just a belief or understanding of doctrine or a belief that Jesus is the Christ. It is all of these things and more. The Holy Spirit testifies to our Spirit sacred truths, like Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God, that he was crucified for the sins of the world and that after laying in a sepulcher for three days, he was raised into immortality and ascended into heaven to sit on the right hand of the Father and reign in Eternal glory for ever and ever. These commonly held beliefs in Christ are what defines Christians today.

Have you ever wondered why their are so many denominations? They all claim to believe in Christ and understand salvation, but all understand the same scriptures a bit differently. Each of these denominations are break offs, off- shoots of the Catholic church. They left the Church because of differences of doctrinal opinion... and other issues. But they took what they believed to be true and started their own faith. The Church that Christ started was no longer in existence. There were still believers, but they all believed something different. The Authority to act in Gods name was no longer on the earth. We call this the Apostasy.

The Bible is an awesome collection of sacred writings that is interpreted differently by different religious groups. Some accept the KJV others have more books... like the Catholics. Joseph Smith was chosen to "restore" Christ's church to the earth in preparation for his second coming. The Book of Mormon is a sacred record that details the account of a family that left Jerusalem in 600 BC and traveled to the Americas. The record details the lives of the descendants of two brothers, Nephi and Lamen. It follows their wars and contentions and rise and fall because of there wickedness and the crowning event is the appearance of Jesus Christ after his crucifixion. It provides details that have been missing from Christian beliefs for centuries. It is another witness or testimony that Jesus Christ is the son of God. It clarifies the information in the Bible. We believe that through Joseph's humble prayer, communication with God opened again. We believe that this communication continues today.

You are a young man who obviously has a firm testimony that Jesus is the Christ. The best ways to find out information about his church is to go to his church. See your Bishop and tell him of your concerns. Go to Gospel Doctrine class on Sunday. Do you attend Seminary? Pray and don't try and read the Book of Mormon- do it. It contains the fullness of the Everlasting Gospel, the good news of salvation through Christ and is a gift beyond compare, an example of Heavenly Fathers unending love for his children. Don't let the adversary distract you and whisper things to you that will lead you astray. You probably have a great work to do for the Lord and the adversary knows it and there is no better way than distract you from the truth.

[Maureen]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

Have you ever wondered why their are so many denominations? They all claim to believe in Christ and understand salvation, but all understand the same scriptures a bit differently.

Are you sure about that? All understand the same scripture differently? Can you give an example?

M.

[prisonchaplain]

This issue of the cross is huge for Protestants. Let me share some random observations.

First, for evangelical/fundamentalist/conservative Christians, the cross is a symbol of rigor. Jesus died a tortorous death on the cross because He loved me THAT much, and because my sins were THAT offensive. When I see that cross, I see the gravity, the depth, the seriousness of my faith, and of the love of God that compels me.

Second...the cross is offensive. Positive thinking and will power will not save me. It is not by works of righteousness that I have come, but according to his mercy he has saved me. And so, the cross is a constant reminder of my need for humble service to God...the price was high, but He paid it. I owe him a life of gratitude.

Third, there is a suspicion that arises when some Christians seem to deny the cross. Why do this? Do they want a bloodless gospel? Do they want to believe the lie that their sins did not merit such a death? Are they unwilling to walk humbly before their God?

In fairness, I note that many "mainstream churches" have taken down their crosses. They say the crosses are offensive, morbid, racist (KKK), and just negative. One poster asked if Jesus' had died by lethal injection, would the needle be our symbol? Another church leader asked my pastor, "Would we put up electric chairs as our symbol," if Jesus had been killed that way??? I loved his response, frankly.

YES!

I know that LDS do not "deny the cross." My sense is that your leaders jettisoned it largely as a means of distinguishing the restored message from the traditional one. And, as FYI, I do not wear a cross. Nevertheless, meditation upon the crucifixion--keeping ever before us the sacrifice--not only the mental psychological anguish of the Garden--but the bloodied phsyical suffering on the cross--it both humbles and encourages me. God hates sin that much. He loves me that much.

[Misshalfway]

I think also for LDS people, it was the in the Garden of Gethsamane that he paid the price for sin -- sweating from every pore. So, the focus of LDS people is not only the cross, but the hours from the moment he entered one garden to the moment Mary met him in another.

[Adeipho]

Originally Posted by Rekhyt2238

Let me start out by saying I am very close to leaving the church. Though I have a few questions before, which is why I came here. To start with, one of my issues with church doctrine is the subject of the Cross. Personally, I wear a Cross, but according to the church website, mormons are not supposed to wear the symbol of the cross because, “the Savior lives, [So] we do not use the symbol of His death as the symbol of our faith.” My opinion on the subject, is that the symbol of Christ's' death, the Cross, is the symbol of Christianity because without his death there would be no religion.
So my question is, why? I do not understand why the fact that Christ lives means that we should not wear a Cross. I ask for any further explanation and/or opinions on the subject.

First of all "religion" existed LONG LONG LONG before and WITHOUT the death of Christ on the cross. This statement tells me that you have much maturing to do and I hope you will take a moment to grow before leaving the church behind.

Second, we do not wear a cross as a custom due to our advanced understanding and appriciation for what Christ actually did. He didnt only die on a cross. HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD!!! However, if you want to wear a cross, I say go for it. IF that is how you want to share with the world around you your faith then do it. The Lord will not condemn you for it, and in due time may even show you a better way to show your faith which you find even more satisfying to your heart.
I for one hope you will procrastinate leaving the church and have a few more chats with yours truly. As one who has lived in and out of the church, and one who has been to hell and stalked the outer grounds of Heaven, I can tell you that the Church is the true church upon the earth and that Christ is its head.

I look foward to your replies.

Adeipho

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Rekhyt2238

Let me start out by saying I am very close to leaving the church. Though I have a few questions before, which is why I came here. To start with, one of my issues with church doctrine is the subject of the Cross. Personally, I wear a Cross, but according to the church website, mormons are not supposed to wear the symbol of the cross because, “the Savior lives, [So] we do not use the symbol of His death as the symbol of our faith.” My opinion on the subject, is that the symbol of Christ's' death, the Cross, is the symbol of Christianity because without his death there would be no religion.

So my question is, why? I do not understand why the fact that Christ lives means that we should not wear a Cross. I ask for any further explanation and/or opinions on the subject.

I am sory to hear that you have some issues that have not been resolved that is causing your testimony to faulter. I sicerely wish you could find the faith, strength and courage to read, ponder and inquire of the Lord as to understand the questions in your heart.

I think in our country we hold wikipedia too high up for our own good and spend very little time truly studying. We are commanded to study and serch as to be prepared to go forth and do the Lord's work.

The word "cross" does not appear in the original greek of the NT. During the first two centuries of Christianity, the cross may have been rare in Christian lore, as it depicts a painful and gruesome method of public execution. The Ichthys, or fish symbol, was used by early Christians. The Chi-Rho monogram, which was adopted by Constantine in the 4th century as his banner, was another Early Christian symbol. In fact the cross appears since the early bronze age in several pagan symbols of the equinox, the sun and the east-west paradigm. The cross takes relevance away from the roman empire where people were not familiar with this method of execution and Christians begin to carve and represent to converts in texts, walls, fabric and other media the story of the crucifixion of Christ.

There you have it. For the rest, those who would like to follow the counsel of the prophets of this dispensation in regards to the issue at hand will do so. Those who don't I guess they can do as they please.

[MorningStar]

I don't find the wearing of crosses offensive, but it's not for me because I feel there was so much more to the Atonement than Christ being killed and I like to focus on the fact that He was resurrected.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Rekhyt2238

So my question is, why? I do not understand why the fact that Christ lives means that we should not wear a Cross. I ask for any further explanation and/or opinions on the subject.

Go ahead and wear a cross. One of the posters, Mike Reed, has pointed out that this aversion to the cross for LDS only came about after the turn of the century. The cross has come to be regarded as a near univeral symbol of Christianity. Its challenge is but one of a personal preference from a church leader. Perhaps it was borne out of a desire to be peculiar or a puff of anger at traditional Christianity. Either way, it is symbolism for you to decide upon.