The Cross

[Traveler]

I find nothing in the scriptures that indicates that a cross has anything to do with being a part of the Kingdom of heaven. The cross as a symbol is worthless in the eyes of G-d. It is not a deal maker or breaker. It has nothing to do with being a Christian.

If a cross is important to you - that is okay - However, to think it is important in eternity without any scripture reference - is an indication that either a person really does not follow scriptures (traditions of the world are more important). Or they believe G-d has spoken outside the scriptures.

This would mean that there is no scripture cannon. If someone believes in a scripture cannon - they need to explaine to me how such an important symbol is not a part of the cannon.

The Traveler

[bytor2112]

[QUOTE=Maureen;223854]Are you sure about that? All understand the same scripture differently? Can you give an example?M.[/quote]


Some faiths believe baptism is necessary for salvation, some do not. Some believe that sprinkling is ok, some believe it must be by emersion. Some believe in paying tithes some do not. Some take the sacrament and some do not. Some have female clergy some do not. Some believe in the Nicene Creed, some do not. Some believe in the rapture of the church, some do not. Some believe that we are saved by grace alone, some do not. Some believe that we must be saved to go to heaven, others think differently. Some claim original Apostolic authority, some don't. Some follow the teachings of Weseley, or Luther or Calvin. Some believe that Priests shouldn't marry. Some believe in a Triune God, some do not.

Once upon a time, they (christians) believed the same doctrine and practiced their faith the same way. They believed the doctrine that Christ established on the earth. That doctrine was restored to the earth when a 14 year old boy knelt in a grove of trees and petitioned his Heavenly Father to let him know which church he should join. He was answered that he should join none of them " for they are all wrong." "...they draw near me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me."

THe confusion over different doctrine that I described above is all different interpretations of scripture and this is just a small sampling of the confusion that exists in the Christian churches today.

Heavenly Father is not the author of this confusion. The truth has been restored.

[Rekhyt2238]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

You say that Christ and Christianity is a big part of your life, are you active in church? Do you hold the Priesthood? You keep saying the "LDS faith". The LDS faith is Christianity- true pure Christianity. Do you need your Bible with you to expound on the "issues" you are having with some church doctrine?

You are a young man who obviously has a firm testimony that Jesus is the Christ. The best ways to find out information about his church is to go to his church. See your Bishop and tell him of your concerns. Go to Gospel Doctrine class on Sunday. Do you attend Seminary? Pray and don't try and read the Book of Mormon- do it. It contains the fullness of the Everlasting Gospel, the good news of salvation through Christ and is a gift beyond compare, an example of Heavenly Fathers unending love for his children. Don't let the adversary distract you and whisper things to you that will lead you astray. You probably have a great work to do for the Lord and the adversary knows it and there is no better way than distract you from the truth.

No, I am not active in church currently. I hold the Aaronic priesthood, I believe. The statement that the LDS faith is true pure Christianity is your belief. When I said I believed in Christianity in general, I simply meant the basics that most Christian religions agree on. Also yes, I would like my Bible for some reference when I ask my other questions.

You say to go to Christ's church. The problem is that I do not know what church is Christ's. To tell you the truth, I have never even met my current bishop. On the subject of seminary, yes I went for two and a half years and my experience with it was horrible. The last year and a half, I do not think I felt the spirit once. On reading the BoM, like I said I tried. I would get halfway through it and have gotten nothing out of it. No feeling, no truths, nothing.

First of all "religion" existed LONG LONG LONG before and WITHOUT the death of Christ on the cross. This statement tells me that you have much maturing to do and I hope you will take a moment to grow before leaving the church behind.

The part you bolded, was out of context. What I meant was that without Christ's death, there would be no Christian religion.

[Elphaba]

What a difference thirty years makes.

When I was 12 or 13-years old, we were explicitly told not to wear a cross, ever. It was a symbol of Christ's death, and all of the other horrors most of you already know, such as his gory death.

About this time, my music teacher, who I no idea had even taken the lessons, joined the Church. As he lived in a different ward, I did not think anything of his baptism and conversion; thus he had been given the call to teacher earlier morning seminary.

Of course, as kids that age were sometime wont to do, Brother Karamenko was aghast when we told him Mormons do not wear the cross. He could not believe this, as to him the cross was a powerful symbol to him, and one that he revered. In that particular seminary class he was visibly upset, and actually left the class alone; however, I met him in Church again a few months later, and he seemed fine.

Another example, which I have given before: I lived in Boston, Massachusetts. We had a woman who had converted to the Church, but she attended Church wearing pants. To us this was sacrilegious, though if it were today, I don't think anyone would think much of it. But at the time, Women just DID NOT go to Church in pants, and really let her have it about wearing pants. Women just DID NOT do that!

She was highly offended by our self-righteous manner of telling her she was wrong, and we were right! Like Mr. Maramenko, she had been a convert as well, and did not take lightly to being told what to do. Although, she did wear dresses from that day forward.

One last story I've told her before. When I lived in Boston, there was a yount man, okay, a GORGEOUS man, who had joined the Church. He was given the opportunity to speak one Sunday. And I will NEVER forget what he said.

This man got up and told us how we should not put the emphasis on Mormon that we did. He thought the Book of Mormon was not an appropriate title, because the book spoke of Christ, and His message. He gave a number of examples where we, in the early '70s, were giving the wrong impression. He said while Moroni was an explemplary personage, he did not done anything to warrant his name on the book.

We were aghast. Everyone avoided him for the rest of the meeting, and I suspect he left after I did, as he didn't have that feeling every more.

FF 35 years, and what he suggested has come true. The Church of Jesus Christ is the Church's focus. He had spoken that day about how the Church's official letterhead, which was used in the '70s, emphasized the word "Mormon" when in fact it should have been emphasizing Christ.

In fact, he felt that most of the Church's standardized business forms did not emphasize Christ, but Mormon. This was because that is how most people recognized the Church, so it is under stable.

But I think every one of these people have a valid point, and this is being addressed by the Church. And that is a good thing.

As far as wearing a cross, I say go for it. If it is symbolic to you, and you want to wear it, then you should wear it. The Church should not dictate to you what you want or don't want to do with your bodies beyond the temple ceremonies.

However, I have never been through the temple, so I admit there is probably more about wearing these symbols than I am aware. I just take President Hinckley's comments to heart about how we would learn from each other if we would listen. Mormons' take on the early doctrine from other religious instructions, such as Catholics, are a common.

We all learn from each other. Especially doctrine from other religious institutions such as Catholics, who see wearing the cross as a religious commandment. (I do not know if the Catholics are united in this. I am only quoting two Catholic friends of mine.)

So, I think Latter-day Saints would do well to be considerate of other people's religious symbols they wear. This is one of the reasons I loved President Hinckley. He taught inclusiveness, and respect for those not who are not Latter-Day Saints.

Elphaba

[Islander]

Why is it that a bold affirmation of the truth is offensive? Why is it that I must temper my speech in regards to the things that I know to be absolutely true?

I claim the right to be politically incorrect on account of declaring that I know what I know and stating without ambiguity or fear that is it an absolute fact. That some may not agree, it is their prerogative and I acknowledge that. Should they take offense on me direct and precise about what I know and believe is also their choice. They are free to do and believe as they please. I am entitled to my opinion just like anyone else in regards to what I see and I make no apology for that.

[Adeipho]

Originally Posted by Islander

Why is it that a bold affirmation of the truth is offensive? Why is it that I must temper my speech in regards to the things that I know to be absolutely true?

I claim the right to be politically incorrect on account of declaring that I know what I know and stating without ambiguity or fear that is it an absolute fact. That some may not agree, it is their prerogative and I acknowledge that. Should they take offense on me direct and precise about what I know and believe is also their choice. They are free to do and believe as they please. I am entitled to my opinion just like anyone else in regards to what I see and I make no apology for that.

Who are you quoting or is it just plagiarize
hour?

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Adeipho

Who are you quoting or is it just plagiarize
hour?

I can see you are surprised at the sight of a strong and well formulated opinion.

[Adeipho]

Originally Posted by Islander

I can see you are surprised at the sight of a strong and well formulated opinion.

hardly, with each breath I take a strong and well formulated opinion is given to the world. It just seemed a little scripted is all.

[MrNirom]

The Gospel according to MrNirom:

Exodus 20: 4-5

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

This scripture tells us what we are not to do. How many people do you know that have the Cross in their churches.. and kneel to it.. and pray in front of it? Carry it and kiss it? Almost in a way.. worship it? This is the 2nd Great Commandment. We choose not to be associated with the "Standard Symbol" of the rest of the Christian World. We are a peculiar people.

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Adeipho

hardly, with each breath I take a strong and well formulated opinion is given to the world. It just seemed a little scripted is all.