Anti-Mormons

[Vort]

Originally Posted by ktfords

In the last six years I have been in SLC. I have had 4 different families deny my children a chance to play with their children

Four families in six years = an average of one family every 18 months. A shameful occurrence, to be sure; but given that you are living in a city that is probably a third Mormon and that you are surrounded by Latter-day Saints, meeting one bad apple (or family) every 18 months should not be overly surprising.

true Christianity, you are to love your neighbor as yourself and continue to love even if you don't agree.

Like, for example, if they're unfriendly to you when they find out you're not LDS?

Why is this so common?

4 times in 6 years != common.

No one will help the elderly non lds, I took action and purchased a four wheeler with a plow (for snow removal). I now take care of all the non lds in my area (about 12 houses) every winter.

I assume you help those rascally Latter-day Saints, too.

As for having dialog, how can a non lds person have a conversation with a member of the Church, when the lds person has already condemned the other person's faith they are talking to?

Assuming you don't actually have the ability to read minds, you are inferring a great deal.

Below is directly out of JS first vision from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints website. This is from Joseph Smith himself.

"I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."

It is a one way conversation, lds are right, no one else is.

Uh, yep. So...?

So, please tell me how you can have an open mind, when above, JS's first vision, says different.

In order to have an open mind, you have to believe that everyone else's worldview is correct? No, I disagree. One can have an open mind while still believing another party is incorrect. Or do you want to admit that you're actually as close-minded regarding the Latter-day Saints as they are regarding you?

[ktfords]

Originally Posted by Vort

Four families in six years = an average of one family every 18 months. A shameful occurrence, to be sure; but given that you are living in a city that is probably a third Mormon and that you are surrounded by Latter-day Saints, meeting one bad apple (or family) every 18 months should not be overly surprising.


Like, for example, if they're unfriendly to you when they find out you're not LDS?


4 times in 6 years != common.


I assume you help those rascally Latter-day Saints, too.


Assuming you don't actually have the ability to read minds, you are inferring a great deal.


Uh, yep. So...?


In order to have an open mind, you have to believe that everyone else's worldview is correct? No, I disagree. One can have an open mind while still believing another party is incorrect. Or do you want to admit that you're actually as close-minded regarding the Latter-day Saints as they are regarding you?

If you read all my statements, I help all my neighbors, even the rascally ones..

[jimuk]

[QUOTE=ktfords;232816]In the last six years I have been in SLC. I have had 4 different families deny my children a chance to play with their children (before this question, everything went great for weeks) , this of course happened after this question, "are you lds"? All I would say is "no, were not", nothing else. Next, day my kids have been told by their new friends they can't play anymore. 4 times this has happened in a couple different neighborhoods. This story is just one that stands out.


Hi ktfords, Your above problem is not anything to do with the church, it is down to individual members and i myself feel ashamed that your children have been put through this ordeal by members of the church, but as i said this is down to individuals and not anything to do with church doctrine
Also think on this. if they were not lds they could have been members of any church, and would you be complaining about their behavior or would you go to them and ask the reason for their actions.

[rameumptom]

Originally Posted by ktfords

In the last six years I have been in SLC. I have had 4 different families deny my children a chance to play with their children (before this question, everything went great for weeks) , this of course happened after this question, "are you lds"? All I would say is "no, were not", nothing else. Next, day my kids have been told by their new friends they can't play anymore. 4 times this has happened in a couple different neighborhoods. This story is just one that stands out.



In true Christianity, you are to love your neighbor as yourself and continue to love even if you don't agree. Why is this so common? I help all my neighbors, lds or not. I have been noticing trend, in the neighborhoods I've lived in , the lds tend to love thy lds neighbor. No one will help the elderly non lds, I took action and purchased a four wheeler with a plow (for snow removal). I now take care of all the non lds in my area (about 12 houses) every winter.

This isn't so loving when I see 4 lds famlies (neighbors) drive by an elderly non lds man (84 years old and is the nicest loving man and friendliest person on the block, in fact he calls himself a jack mormon) and ignore the foot of snow he is attempting to remove. If a neighbor needs help, lds or not, I am always ready to help.

As for having dialog, how can a non lds person have a conversation with a member of the Church, when the lds person has already condemned the other person's faith they are talking to?

Below is directly out of JS first vision from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints website. This is from Joseph Smith himself.

"I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."

It is a one way conversation, lds are right, no one else is.

So, please tell me how you can have an open mind, when above, JS's first vision, says different.

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience with some LDS in your area. Sadly, there are many that are like that. But it is not what is taught by our leadership. In fact, during tragedies like Katrina, we tend to assist more non-members than members, as we had hundreds of LDS descend each weekend for 2 months to assist people.

What the Lord told Joseph Smith is that the CREEDS are bad and unacceptable to God. However, the Lord said nothing of the people in those religions at that time. Later, the Lord told Joseph in D&C that many of these people are good and decent, but just don't know where to find the truth.

And you must admit that there are some bad creeds in some churches. Do you accept Calvin's TULIP creed, where Christ's atonement is limited to just a few that God will arbitrarily choose, regardless of faith or obedience to Christ? Is such a view not an abomination in view of the scriptures, like John 3:16? How about Indulgences or worshipping virgins and saints? Are those acceptable creeds? As I see it, Indulgences were so abominable that Martin Luther wrote against them, was excommunicated, and later forgiven by the RCC, which later condemned Indulgences itself! So, who is for condemning Joseph Smith for being told that Indulgence creeds are an abomination?

We believe that all churches have truth and light in them. Alma 29:8 teaches that God gives truth to each nation, kindred and people, according to what they are ready to receive. So we believe there is truth and goodness in the RCC, Baptist, Islam, Buddhist, and Hindu religions. But we also believe there are errors and false creeds that need correcting. We believe that the LDS Church does not contain all truth, either - as all God's truth is not yet upon the earth. However, we believe we have greater light and truth given through modern prophets and apostles.

We believe in multiple levels of heaven, and each person will receive a level of heaven, except for the sons of perdition - those who totally reject Christ and goodness. Even wicked people like Hitler will receive the lowest heaven, after repentance and paying for their sins in Spirit Prison/World. So, we believe God so loved the world that he gave his Only Begotten Son.... We believe in a near universal salvation, and that many can also achieve exaltation (highest level of heaven) through being extremely faithful in seeking out Christ and the fullness of his truth, both here and in the Spirit World. Most people will not merit that level of heaven, as most are not interested in that level of heaven. Most are happy to settle in an easier level.

Many Baptists would make terrible Mormons, and many Mormons (including me) would make a lousy Baptist or Catholic. Therefore, God has opened the way for several levels of heaven, to provide the best for each of his children. All we Mormons are supposed to do, is offer our view to others, and give them a chance to accept higher truths, if they so choose.

Having said that, I do recognize that many Mormons do not act like Latter-day Saints, just as many Christians do not follow Christ beyond just lip service. You should have seen how I was treated by Christians when I lived in Montgomery, Alabama, in the center of the Bible belt. You think the LDS ignoring you, or keeping you at arm's length was bad? Imagine having people surround your temple/chapel and shout out you are going to go to hell if you don't change your life! Now THAT'S what I call being a Christian.

[bytor2112]

Ktford,

Sounds like you just don't like Mormons....I guess Utah wasn't the best choice for you to live, huh? Try somewhere in the South, there are plenty of "so-called" Christians here with similar views. Haven't you already condemned the LDS beliefs, hmm? Why are you any different? Would your theology be able to withstand the same type of intense scrutiny as ours have? No way. It's doubtful, that you even know why you believe what you believe regarding your own faith. If you studied your own faith's history and really knew what it was you claimed to believe, you might be quite surprised. Uh, wait.... I don't think we know what faith that is. But, I find most people like you to be just believers, just "saved", born again and ready to point out how wrong we are. I am sure I could point out how wrong you are, but I will rise above it. No one will help the non-LDS huh?? Right, those mean ole, close minded, bigoted Mormons. Uh huh, that's been my experience alright.

[jimuk]

Thanks for your last comment bytor, wish i could express myself like you.

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by jimuk

Thanks for your last comment bytor, wish i could express myself like you.

Thanks.... I get a little red sometimes. When I read stuff like that it makes me crazy. I will never forget driving to Pascagoula, Mississippi after Katrina and working like a dog to remove carpet and drywall and cut fallen trees or whatever else was needed with thousands of other Saints. I am certain that we did not identify who were LDS and who were not. In Mississippi, it wasn't very many. Our faith is about serving others, we are always looking for service projects and especially look for ways to help non-members.

[Truegrits]

ktfords, I am sorry that your children have had that happen to them. That must be a difficult thing to explain to a child.

I have not known any LDS like the ones you describe. The LDS I know would be the first on the block to pitch in and help someone; the first to take food to the sick; to organize the youth to mow/pick up a yard for the elderly or infirm. Granted, I live in a small town, so maybe that is the difference.

I have had to ask my son, 15, to not hang around a couple of his friends. They are a poor example, in many ways, of how I wish my son to act, and what I would like him to be. They are, by the way, LDS.

I am not perfect; far from it. But do not attribute my flaws/imperfections to my Faith. If I do something to hurt or to anger someone, it is not because I am LDS, it is because I am an imperfect human being.

What an interesting thread! I would just like to offer that sometimes we "gentiles" encounter aspects of LDS doctrine and culture in very innocent ways which can lead to speculation and confusion about Mormonism. But that certainly doesn't make all of us anti-Mormon!

For example, our family's introduction to the "white and delightsome" or "pure and delightsome" concept came when our then 7-year-old daughter returned from school one day. She reported that one of her LDS girlfriends believed that the entire Rodriguez family of children was "turning white" because their formerly Roman Catholic father had finally decided to join the LDS church. This was in the mid-90s and I don't remember what the official teaching of the church was on that particular issue at the time or whether the language in the BoM had been altered yet but it certainly prompted interesting discussions and research at our house.

I have scores of other instances of how our unsuspecting Lutheran farm family was/is impacted by our surrounding Mormon culture in ways that lead to many questions about LDS doctrine and tradition. I hope that this curiosity (which led me to this board) coupled with my unwaivering Christian faith does not make me unwelcome here or considered anti-Mormon.

[unixknight]

Thanks for your insights, prisonchaplain.

I once had a brother-in-law who was one of those "contenders" prisonchaplain referred to. This guy was all about getting me to convert out of LDS and had absolutely no compunctions about telling me - to my face - that I was destined to burn in Hell.

He even sent me pamphlets and tracts. What bothered me is that these tracts contained blatant lies about LDS doctrine that anybody who had bothered to do 5 minutes' worth of research could have seen the truth of for themselves, and yet here it was, presented as if from the mouth of Jesus Christ Himself!

So I wrote back responding to this, pointing out where the errors were and pointing out areas that were simply matters of theological disagreement. He stopped responding.

I tried to get a warm fuzzy from this, the idea being that he was just trying to do right by my soul or something, but the fact is I could never shake the feeling that he was just trying to somehow vindicate himself, or maybe he had inner guilt (he was caught cheating on my sister) and thought that maybe somehow by converting me he could make up for his wrongs.

I dunno.