Anti-Mormons

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by Palerider

here in Missouri you wil only get that story from the Church News or go to a Utah newspaper web site.....

Hey Pale,

So do you think it was only emphasized in Utah? My impression was different, and if it was wrong, that makes me sad.

Elphie

[Palerider]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

Hey Pale,

So do you think it was only emphasized in Utah? My impression was different, and if it was wrong, that makes me sad.

Elphie

we never hear about this sort of thing back here.....we see it in the church news or if we have a relative in utah they tell us. If the Catholic Church did it....its all over the news ....this is not a negative comment against the Catholic Church....

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by jimuk

Please enlighten us to your beliefs, and what the reasons you think the lds family stopped their children playing alongside your children, i am just curious.
As already said, the were individual members, wow there is so much expected from mormons

Interesting question. My wife and I were once confronted by a rather angry neighbor that wanted to know why my wife and I would not let our children play with theirs and why we had started a whisper campaign to keep other LDS children in the neighborhood from playing with their children.

We invited them into our home and explained that on Sunday (the day they came) that we observe the Sabbath and spend time with our children. It was not that they could not play with other children but that this was a time for our family. I told them that I encourage other families to do the same and that this was not secret or whisper campaign. I also encouraged them to spend Sunday as a special time with their children.

I have no idea how this got twisted but I have no doubt but that such mistakes are not uncommon. I am just grateful that my neighbor decided to get to the bottom of the problem.

The Traveler

Originally Posted by Palerider

we never hear about this sort of thing back here.....we see it in the church news or if we have a relative in utah they tell us. If the Catholic Church did it....its all over the news ....this is not a negative comment against the Catholic Church....

Hi Palerider,

I am Catholic ( Michigan ) First time I have heard of this effort was ummmmm about 45 minutes ago. I would also completly agree that if it were us Catholics you betcha there would CNN, MSNBC, FOX, and the rest reporting. Not sure what that really means though??

At any rate, thought I would chime in from Michigan

God bless,
Carl

[VisionOfLehi]

Originally Posted by Palerider

here in Missouri you wil only get that story from the Church News or go to a Utah newspaper web site.....

In Iowa the only reason I knew the Church was involved was because well after it happened I decided to look it up and see how much we helped out...

[HoosierGuy]

Originally Posted by rameumptom

For those who are disgusted with the LDS Church, I believe it is often a matter of them not being of LDS material, just as I am not Baptist material. The Spirit guides us in slightly different paths, due to who we are and what we wish to become.

What does "LDS material" consist of? I'm not sure what kind of material I'm made up of. But I know this - I want to enter the CelestialKingdom and be Exalted! Actually, I do know what kind of material I'm made up - I'm Heavenly Fathers son and I have the potential to be just like him. When I pray at night I usually tell Father that I love Him and want to be like Him, in a respectful way.

[Maurice]

Please do not take this the wrong way. I am not a Mormon but you must remember that many of what you call anti Mormons have read the words in Joseph Smith -History 18 -20 and equally feel hurt.
Maurice

[tsubotsubo]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

Nonsense.

The majority of these incidents did happen, and painting everyone who is interested in them with the same brush is shallow and prejudiced. Many people, like myself, have a passion for the Church’s history, and know more about these incidents than people, like you, who only want to end the discuss because you perceive them as anti-Mormons.

Based on your post, you are not qualified to determine who has an agenda or not, just because they bring up these historical truths.

And the collective “you” do not seem to realize that many people do want to discuss these items, because they are true, but wanting to discuss them does not automatically make someone an “anti-Mormon.“

And ‘they” who approach these historical facts, and conflate them with anti-Mormons, do not seem to understand you can never know for certain what a person’s purpose is. The only way you could determine this is to start a discussion with the person, without a pre-conceived agenda to prove someone is an “anti-Mormon,“ “an agnostic/atheist who doesn’t understand the Church," or other labels that try to dismiss what a person can offer. You don’t have to be LDS to be able to bring something to the discussion.

I admit I have seen people who, usually, have just discovered some of these items, and believe they are going to come onto a LDS website with this shocking information, and everyone on the website is going to be so upset they’re going to lose their testimony. These people are unfortunate, as their shock is real, but their information, though often true, is tired and boring. But this does make him an anti-Mormon. "He" is usally stunned by just learning a historical truth and is frantic about it.

Admittedly, many of these people leave the Church; however, many of them do not, and frankly, once they've learned more about the Church's true history, their testimony is stronger than ever.

I’ve also seen Latter-day Saints pretend to be investigators, and make comments about how impressed with the Church they are, and how it must be true because of “a”, “b” or “c.” These people obviously are not anti-Mormons; however, they are as dishonest as those you are so quick to judge.

This means nothing regarding whether the Church is true or not. Unfortunately, people like the collective “you” who claim these things never happened or are out of context, do the Church a disservice, as there are many Latter-day Saint historians who write about these incidents, and know they did happen.

The history of the Church is what it is, and insisting that if we discuss it means we’re anti-Mormon is rude. While you may have personally talked with people that you describe, you have not talked to people who do not have an agenda other than the historical truths. And there are more of us than many here seem to be willing to admit.

Elphaba

Okay, sorry if my post has upset you, but I've had many, what I consider to be 'anti-mormons' question me, in real life, as to why I'm a mormon. When this all first started happening to me, I believed they were sincere, and interested in my religion, but it just spun out of control, and now, today, they clearly have found a list of facts that 'disprove' my religion, and expect me respond everytime, and there's just so much 'darkness' in my religion that they've gone on from years, and repeated themselves very little. Now I'm considered an absolute deluded idiot for being part of a religion that seems to discriminate against everyone except white, straight men. These people clearly are 'against mormonism (or maybe against me), but they're definately 'anti'.

It never really occured to me that people can discuss these things with mormons and actually be genuinely interested rather than make a fool of them. It's just that, for me, everytime I respond to their evidence against mormonism, they just say that my replies are immature, or vague, or contradict myself, and it makes me very upset, as I have no one to help me. Now, I've just gotten to a point where I research everything in advance, using sites like FAIR and exmormon.org to be prepared (and it does quite annoy them when I am for some reason).

And I know that most of what I've posted is true. I've had a LOT of proof for each of the, seemingly hundreds of facts, thrown in my face, but some of them actually are not true. For example, Joseph Smith did not prophesy that men live on the moon. I haven't found a first-hand account of him saying it yet, and, if the church is true, he wouldn't have prophesied incorrectly, and if the church isn't true, he wouldn't be able to prophesy at all. A more reasonable accusation to make would be 'Joseph Smith and Brigham Young said men live on the moon'.

Anyways, sorry that I clearly upset you, and sorry in advance if my attempt at justifying myself has upset you further.

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Please do not take this the wrong way. I am not a Mormon but you must remember that many of what you call anti Mormons have read the words in Joseph Smith -History 18 -20 and equally feel hurt.
Maurice

Maurice,

I don't feel hurt by "anti's" and I doubt the people we have been talking about are hurt by the JS history. Their web sites and books don'y say " Joseph Smith has hurt my feelings, so I am going to twist the truth and mislead anyway I can to disprove him." Many churches have histories and beliefs that are "hurtful" to someone. The issue of "gay marriage" is hurtful to gays, the issue of Southern Baptists and slavery could be hurtful to some, the history of the Catholics is hurtful to many others and on and on.....

[Maurice]

Thank you for your reply - I do not deserve such a reply - it has not upset me in the way you think - What has upset me is the nature of your reply. I was only making a comment- to explain both sides. You do not seem to understand that the quote I gave has upset many non-Mormons. I am not writing to engage in any arguement. People can be interested and and have a desire to understand without being anti. I am sorry if you do not feel I am genuine. If I may mention it - I am 67 years of age and spent many years teaching and your letter concerns me because you appear to be uptight -and unwilling to enter into any othe view - I do not know how you can write that your post has upset me.
I only sent a short comment.
Maurice.