Anti-Mormons - Page 26

tsubotsubo · #**251** (**permalink**) 07-24-2008, 10:48 AM

Well, I feel hurt when people ridicule my religion, as it is so important to me, but I think it's more about not retaliating.

In mormon churches, it's largely discouraged to ridicule the religions of others, whilst I've witnessed a couple of occasions where mormonism has been 'attacked' somewhat by people of other religions (well, I've only seen 2 occasions, but I'm sure it happens quite regularly in some religions judging by the fact that I didn't have to go to the churches very long at all to hear that).

I feel hurt by this, but I keep it to myself. I don't preach at church about the errors in the religions belonging to the people that offended me. I just keep it to myself and put it behind me.

Maurice · #**252** (**permalink**) 07-24-2008, 10:57 AM

Please -it appears that I have upset a couple of you with my comment. All I can say is that I did not intend to do so. I can only speak personally and I can remember the first time I read Joseph Smith History 18-20 and felt angry that it was stated 'that all were wrong'. That is why I mentioned it. I was not agreeing with the way some anti Mormons act.
Maurice

candyprpl · #**253** (**permalink**) 07-24-2008, 12:55 PM

If we are intent on finding the bad in a person we are sure to find it -- likewise, if we are intent on finding the good in a person we are sure to find it.

We don't claim to be perfect and sometimes we fail to be very good examples. Anyone professing to be Christian is not always perfect in their actions. There has only been one on earth who can say without a doubt that He was perfect in all his actions.

Misshalfway · #**254** (**permalink**) 07-24-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Please -it appears that I have upset a couple of you with my comment. All I can say is that I did not intend to do so. I can only speak personally and I can remember the first time I read Joseph Smith History 18-20 and felt angry that it was stated 'that all were wrong'. That is why I mentioned it. I was not agreeing with the way some anti Mormons act.
Maurice

Forgive me for interjecting here, Maurice. For full disclosure to you, I am LDS and I have heard this concern before. To be honest, it is a surprising reaction for someone to be hurt by such an assertion, if you don't mind me saying. If Joseph Smith was wrong, why be hurt by that? Why not just say, "Old Joe is wrong" and be done with it.

candyprpl · #**255** (**permalink**) 07-24-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphaba

This didn't happen until a month or so after the major clean-up, but when the media caught the story of the Church's contributions to the people affected by Katrina, especially by Church volunteers, it was a fairly big story,

Perhaps I am wrong on when the news story broke, but I don't think it was emphasized more in Utah than elsewhre in the country. I believe the story was genuinely covered nationwide because the Church's service was so extensive it truly made a big difference.

Elphaba

The only thing that made the media in the southwest (where I live) is all the volunteers that helped out not anything specifically identifying the church. I learned about it only in the Church News.

rameumptom · #**256** (**permalink**) 07-24-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Please do not take this the wrong way. I am not a Mormon but you must remember that many of what you call anti Mormons have read the words in Joseph Smith -History 18 -20 and equally feel hurt.
Maurice

Well, that is something they will have to learn to live with. I personally think that what Joseph Smith was told BY GOD, is a lot nicer than having a "Christian" say to my face that I am a demon and will go to hell.

You've got to remember, Joseph was reporting what was told to him by God. If he really did see God, then what do you have to feel hurt about? It becomes an issue of following God more closely.

Do you think Jesus went around apologizing for saying, "Whoa unto ye Pharisees, hypocrites!"? I highly doubt it. Instead, I believe some of his words were couched in tough terms to provoke people into reviewing their lives and repenting. His words in the New Testament are just as harsh, if not harsher, than the words He said to Joseph in condemning the false creeds of our day. Or do you actually think that Jesus would not condemn false creeds today? Do you think he is happy with creeds such as limited atonement, indulgences, etc.?

Nowhere in the Bible was Jesus politically correct. In Joseph's day, the pastors were equally strong or stronger in their condemnation of sin. What's harsher: condemning false creeds, or driving people from place to place for their religious beliefs? Why do you feel Jesus and Joseph Smith must be politically correct in the 21st century, in things stated 150+ years ago?

rameumptom · #**257** (**permalink**) 07-24-2008, 01:48 PM

I just cannot understand the level of hurt being expressed. 150+ years ago, Joseph explained an experience of his, where he was TOLD that the creeds were false. How is that offensive?
Second, was that anymore offensive than he and his people being driven from place to place: New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Missouri, Illinois, Utah? Or was his murder by a gang of 200 any less offensive than a statement saying that the creeds of Christianity were false?
How about the many Christian churches today, which hold classes on "cults" and specialize on the cult of Mormonism? Is that less offensive than this one statement that Joseph is relaying information given him by God? How about the DVD Jesus/Joseph Smith that went out to hundreds of thousands of homes a year ago, stating that Joseph was an evil impostor? How about the time a few years back when the Baptists held their annual convention in SLC, so they could call the Mormons to repentance and back into their form of Christianity? Was that less offensive than Joseph relaying a message?
Joseph never said that Christians are wicked. He said that the creeds are false!

How is that offensive? If Joseph was truly told this of God, perhaps you should pay attention to it. If he wasn't, why not just ignore it? Take a look at the creeds. Do you agree with all of them? Do you agree with the creed of Indulgences? How about Calvin's TULIP, where there is only a limited atonement?

I've asked this a few times before, and still await a comment from you on it. If these are true creeds, then you should defend them. If you disagree with these creeds, then why be offended that Joseph also felt them to be false? What say you?

omega0401 · #**258** (**permalink**) 07-24-2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Please -it appears that I have upset a couple of you with my comment. All I can say is that I did not intend to do so. I can only speak personally and I can remember the first time I read Joseph Smith History 18-20 and felt angry that it was stated 'that all were wrong'. That is why I mentioned it. I was not agreeing with the way some anti Mormons act.
Maurice

There is another way to look at it. You do realize that with so many religions teaching and believing so differently that they can't all be right. All will be wrong except the Lord's only true church. There is only one God and one faith as the bible teaches us not many faiths.

omega0401 · #**259** (**permalink**) 07-24-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsubotsubo

And I know that most of what I've posted is true. I've had a LOT of proof for each of the, seemingly hundreds of facts, thrown in my face, but some of them actually are not true. For example, Joseph Smith did not prophesy that men live on the moon. I haven't found a first-hand account of him saying it yet, and, if the church is true, he wouldn't have prophesied incorrectly, and if the church isn't true, he wouldn't be able to prophesy at all. A more reasonable accusation to make would be 'Joseph Smith and Brigham Young said men live on the moon'.

Anyways, sorry that I clearly upset you, and sorry in advance if my attempt at justifying myself has upset you further.

I've heard about the men on the moon story before and I haven't seen where this came from but I hope you realize that not everything Joseph Smith said was in the name of the Lord. He wasn't a prophet 24 hours a day only when he was moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

The Lord did not take away Joseph own personal opinions about things when He called him to be His chosen mouth-piece upon the earth. So when I hear these stories I have to ask myself, did he speak this as his own opinion or in the name of the Lord? And you can pretty much tell when he was speaking in the name of the Lord. I hope that helps.

jimuk · #**260** (**permalink**) 07-24-2008, 03:09 PM

Maurice, Do you not want a prophet on the earth, do you not feel it in your heart that with a prophet we/you have direct contact with heavenly father through these prophets.
Joseph smith was such a prophet, and from the word go, as soon as he told people about his visitation he was persecuted, people would cross to the other side of the street when they see him coming, pretty tough going for a young lad of 15yrs dont you think, a lot to take onto such a young boys shoulders.
rameumptom says it all in his post, so please look into your heart, and i would plead with you in the name of Jesus christ to ask your father in heaven if Brother Joseph was a prophet.
If you ask, really wanting, needing to know, with no bitterness, your father will let it be known to you by the spirit.
It is such a simple way of of finding out.