Anti-Mormons

[prisonchaplain]

Originally Posted by rameumptom

I don't respond to the FLDS. How they live their lives, as long as they are not abusing children, is their own business.

Your church repeatedly announces that the FLDS has no connection with the LDS, that polygamy is an offense leading to excommunication--in essence, that they are heretics. I'm not suggesting that your church should not do this, btw.

And the LDS do require more of their own than other churches. While a priest or minister is paid to work full time, our bishops are not paid, yet most put 20-40 hours a week into their callings.

You can offer me anecdotes of people who put in long hours for no pay, and I could likewise point out many of our ministers who are also voluntary, and who work full-time so they can minister full-time. OK, I'll grant that your bishopric gets special notice for being an entirely volunteer lay-clergy.

But, for most members, those who are actively involved in the church are largely similar to those actively involved in Protestant churches. Those who are inactive largely mirror those who warm our pews.

I'm a high priest group leader, and easily put 20+ hours a week into my main calling, not including home teaching, helping with Scouts, and other responsibilities that come up.

And we have deacons who usher, do parking lot duty, join the pastor on calls to homes, etc. You may believe that your people do what we do to a greater degree, and that a higher percentage are involved...and you might be right, overall. But, it is a matter of degree, and the gap may not be quite so wide.

And while most Protestant/evangelical churches teach on salvation through faith/grace alone, we do have a Catholic view that ordinances and obedience are important for achieving a higher level of salvation. with this concept, some members over exert themselves and suffer from burn-out.

Don't confuse our teaching about conversion with a belief that Christians don't need to do nuthin'. Again, many of our people are very busy about the Father's business, within the church and in parachurch ministries on the outside. The doctrinal difference is that they labor out of gratitude, rather than to ensure they "survive to the end."

Also, I haven't seen other religions expect 10% tithes (plus other offerings),

Most churches teach tithing. Some even teach those considering membership that it is an expectation. Compliance is not 100%, but in both Southern Baptist and Assemblies of God churches giving is at 5% (which I take to mean that approximately half of the members tithe, with the other half throwing a dollar in the plate...).

sons to go on missions for 2 years at their own cost, etc.

We don't send all of our sons on two year missions, but many do short-term missions, and some give themselves over to lifelong missions.

IOW, there is a big difference. If I were in another church, I would be considered at least a part time minister and being paid for it.

Or not. Our average church has 140 members, one full-time minister, one part-time youth pastor, and several lay-leaders (voluntary). The particularly church I belong to has four ministers (sometimes 5), two of whom are paid. None of our deacons, teachers, and other workers are paid.

Instead, I work a 40+ hour a week job, and THEN add my church duties on top of it all, paying into the system, rather than being paid.

I applaud you, but would also inform you that many do likewise in Protestant churches.

[rameumptom]

I'm not bitter. All of the work I've done in the Church over the last 32 years has taught me many things, especially patience. There have been spiritual experiences I would have missed out on, had I not had these opportunities.

I just wanted to point out that there's a big difference for many LDS versus those in other churches.

[CatchTheRedeye]

Originally Posted by RachelleDrew

There are also antis who have absolutely no experience or knowledge of the church. I don't feel so sorry for them, because it only makes you look stupid to berate the Book of Mormon when you haven't even read it. Maybe they are concerned for our salvation, but some are just there to feel pious.

Every church has to face criticism at some point in it's existence. It's best to just be loving to them and ignore their words.

I've read your Book of Mormon a couple of times and I admit it is fascinating. Did Smith really write (translate) that when he was real young? Can his young age be proven or is it just legend? I don't know how he could have made that all up. If Isaac Asimov (an atheist) had written that before he died everyone would say it was a great alternate history work and it would be highly touted.

I appreciate all the comments in this thread. Very interesting. PrisonChaplain, you are right that there are anti-Catholics and others. I shouldn't have said there weren't. It just seems that a tiny church like the Mormon church (sorry, 13 million is tiny) gets more than its share of persecution. That is one of the things that made me interested in it in the first place. So I guess the antis plan backfired in me. Thanks anti-mormons. If there was one true church and if there was a devil it makes sense that the true church would be fought against. IMNSHO

[VisionOfLehi]

Originally Posted by jimuk

Funny thing is, all this ante/lds persecution, makes the spirit in me stronger, it in no way makes me doubt my beliefs one little bit.

I'm the same way.

I think of it as a righteous fury, in some cases. It's a love of my faith and my Savior.

I am a warrior for God, and when they bring out the fighting words it makes my spirit battle ready!


I stood strong against Satan in one estate, and I will surely do the same in this.

[Elphaba]

C’mon people! This guy is straight out of central casting, complete with the predictable script containing every anti-Mormon pejorative in the book.

I’ve pulled out the exact words and phrases only a person with a significant amount of experience with the Church would know.

For example, the phrase "one true church," is a Mormon convention, and only someone with a fair amount of experience with LDS jargon would know of it.

Keep in mind this person is agnostic, with a couple of google searches on the web as his experience with the Church.

(Oh, sorry, I forgot: He also went to that temple square thingy, and has conveniently read the Book of Mormon a couple of times.)

1) Persecution
2) “antis” (two mentions)
3) “anti-Mormons (four mentions)
4) One true church
5) [antis] “fight against the Church.”
6) Went to Utah
7) Temple Square thingy
8) Tearing down another religion
9) Run-ins with violent Baptists and Jehovah’s Witnesses, but the Mormons are always nice and respectful.
10) I’ve read the Book of Mormon a couple of times.
11) If an atheist had written it, people would believe it is true history.
12) Did Smith really write (translate) that when he was real young?
I3) “I don’t know how he could have made that all up.”
14) 13 million
15) “The persecution is what got me interested in the first place.” (Elphaba: This is my personal favorite.)
16) Thus the “antis” plan backfired
17) True Church
18) And if there was a devil it makes sense that the true church would be fought against.
19) Thanks anti-Mormons.

Like I said, “Persecution” is my favorite. It’s a dead giveaway, as there is not one person on this planet who would consider anti-Mormonism "persecution," except a Mormon with a Cause.

Elphaba

[Bettina]

Originally Posted by CatchTheRedeye

OK, Why are there Anti-Mormons and why do many of them fight against the LDS church?

Jesus had never done anything bad to anyone. That is why they had killed him. Be a bit bad, do not tell the truth, do what all do instead of following Christ, then the devil need not fight against you, because he has got you already and makes you fight against Mormons.

[rameumptom]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

Your church repeatedly announces that the FLDS has no connection with the LDS, that polygamy is an offense leading to excommunication--in essence, that they are heretics. I'm not suggesting that your church should not do this, btw.

Ram: Actually, we do not consider them heretics. We believe them to be a separate Church from us, just as we view Catholics and Baptists to be separate from us. We believe that actions, such as polygamy, are an excommunicable offense, because it is only authorized in the Church, when our prophet condones it. Since we do not recognize the FLDS prophet as our own, he cannot condone plural marriages for the LDS. I haven't heard the Church call them "heretic" a single time. We are just ensuring in our media coverage that people do not mistake them with us, as we are two separate entities.

[TheLutheran]

Originally Posted by RachelleDrew

. . .
There is a big difference between someone who reads our scripture with a curious, open mind and still doesn't believe it is truth, and somebody who reads our scripture with the sole intent of picking it apart and twisting it to suit their agenda. The former are the ones that I find to be particularly offensive.

Why do you find "the former particularly offensive?" I am just curious -- no pun intended.

[WANDERER]

Some things people choose to be provoked by: apostasy, apostate, restoration to the fallen, a Prophet who wanted to be President, witnessing to other Christians, a Mormon heaven (celestial is reserved)...or whatever it is that is not trust-promoting...because it is not trusting of others. It is a mirror effect. Sorry...but I feel I should be sincere and honest.

[mightynancy]

But, for most members, those who are actively involved in the church are largely similar to those actively involved in Protestant churches. Those who are inactive largely mirror those who warm our pews.

This is true. I have a dear friend who attends a Christian Fellowship church - she puts in many hours for free, and so do her husband and teen daughter. Their congregation raises a lot of money and spends countless volunteer hours to provide a week-long summer program for kids (their Vacation Bible School). She and her husband minister to families in crisis...for free. We LDS aren't the only ones who sacrifice time and effort in selfless service.