BoM evidences

[Dale]

Without such evidence i would think Joseph Smiths story of the angels taking the plates back as a cover story. The real story would be he created fake plates and have to destroy the evidence. So as an explanation if he was lying he would have to create a story to cover his deception.

I have been closely studying Living Hope Ministries Bible vs. the Book of Mormon. FAIR at its You Tube channel put up its own film a few days ago. But in the film some of the critics saw the lack of manuscript evidence for the book as evidence Joseph Smith had no plates. Certain critics think if he really had plates he would have no need for an angel to take them back. Rather the plates would be on display somewhere. I would agree with them were it not for the evidences that gives me hope to trust his story.

Book of Mormon evidences to me satisfy me no 19th century guy alone wrote the book. To me i have seen some of those evidences survive some tough critical scrutiny. But if i had nothing outside Joseph Smiths word i would agree with critics he was a fraud. To me the evidence gives me hope i can rely on Joseph Smiths word. And to avoid making ourselves victims of decieving men we should accept nobody's word on their sayso alone.

Doubts and questions are a part of religion. And i see lots of issues ambiguous. So living with not knowing based on evidence alone is a reality. I live with having faith in what i do not know.

[jimuk]

I think that you will not prove the book of mormon through science because there are to many people trying to disprove it with science. But we as members know with a surety that it is true because we have had the Holy Ghost bare witness to us of this fact, if not why would we belong to the Church of jesus christ of latter day saints. There is nothing to compare to the way The Holy ghost strengthens ones spirit almost to the point of overwhelming our mortal bodies, this is the proof we have, and it is the only proof i want or need, How could i, no matter what Arkies or science tells me, deny what my heavenly father has made known to me by the spirit.

So no matter what anyone's views are on the book of Mormon, they would " Never " convince me it was false.

I Testify here and now in front of god that The Book of Mormon, Is true and does contain the word of our Heavenly father for the enlightenment of the whole world.

[changed]

Originally Posted by jimuk

I think that you will not prove the book of mormon through science because there are to many people trying to disprove it with science. But we as members know with a surety that it is true because we have had the Holy Ghost bare witness to us of this fact, if not why would we belong to the Church of jesus christ of latter day saints.

Not everyone knows by the Holy Spirit.

DC 46: 13 To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world.
14 To others it is given to believe on their words…

John 20: 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


I agree - evidence does not prove anything, just like you cannot prove that God exists. Evidence keeps the possibility open though – you can’t prove it either way, you can argue it either way. Without the Holy Spirit it is a matter of choosing what to believe based on personal values and morals. In that case…

Choose to believe in a loving perfect God – gives life Meaning and Purpose
Choose a church that supports a loving perfect God
- Baptisms for the dead – instead of condemning others to hell
- Modern Prophets and apostles – living God who has not abandoned the Earth
- Pre-existence – free agency in choosing to come here
- multiple witnesses from multiple civilizations – God of entire Earth not just one people
- eternal families – heaven more than halos and harps
- witness of Jesus – God loved us so He sent His Son, sent His Son to everyone…

just a few of the things that attracted me to the LDS church, concepts you can figure out without the Holy Spirit. Holy spirit is the icing on the cake once you have chosen to pursue this route…

some more links – not evidence – but stuff that shows the possibility is open…


Introduction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPlCue-rmFY...;watch_response

Coins and The Book of Mormon:
YouTube - pt 2 Coins, (full-length) rebuttal of an anti-Mormon

Metals and The Book of Mormon:
YouTube - pt 3, Metals (full-length) rebuttal of an anti-Mormon

Grains and The Book of Mormon:
YouTube - pt 4 Grains, (full-length) rebuttal of an anti-Mormon

Horses, Elephants and chariots in The Book of Mormon:
YouTube - pt 5 Horses, (full-length) rebuttal of an anti-Mormon

Book of Mormon geography (Old World):
YouTube - pt 6 Book of Mormon Geography in the Old World (full-length)

Book of Mormon geography (New World):
pt 7 Book of Mormon Geography in the New World (full-length)

Origins of the Native Americans:
YouTube - pt 8 Origin of the Native Americans (full-length)

Book of Mormon and Temples:
YouTube - pt 9 Temples and The Book of Mormon (full-length)

Hebrew poetry in The Book of Mormon:
YouTube - pt 10 Hebrew poetry in The Book of Mormon (full-length)

Reformed Egyptian:
YouTube - pt 11 Reformed Egyptian and languages in The Book of Mormon

Archeology and the Bible:
YouTube - pt 12 Archaeology and the Bible (full-length)

Scholars response to Bible vs The Book of Mormon:
YouTube - pt 13 LDS scholars respond to Bible vs The Book of Mormon

Testimonies of the scholars:
YouTube - pt 14 the testimonies of the scholars

Silk, Book of Mormon archeology and the credits:
YouTube - pt 15, silk and archaeology in The Book of Mormon, credits

Alma 7:10, Jesus born at Jerusalem:
YouTube - Alma 7:10, Jesus born at Jerusalem?

more info at fair - above the short version of it...

[changed]

Originally Posted by ex19k

ok...monkey wrench time...at least for me... Everyone...Great words on the spirit!
However....some people do have a passion for this kinda thing...like me! I love the research that is done in the name of science...and hey...if it helps to promote the gospel that i hold so dear, oh yeah..as the old archeologist once said...Have trowel will travel!
To me the discoveries that are being made today are amazing! not to mention that they are re-writing history every day!

It is really fun stuff. I also think some of the findings are giving us a clearer picture of what it was really like in BoM times.

Now..let me ask you something...if they found say a rock..in the U S say in the New Mexico area that had a phonecian style of hebrew that had the 10 commandments on it. that this writing was used about 600BC and when discovered in the 1800's was thought to be a joke. well....i for one went...hmmmm...do tell. if you want will try to find that link again....

link

Originally Posted by Dale

Without such evidence i would think Joseph Smiths story of the angels taking the plates back as a cover story. The real story would be he created fake plates and have to destroy the evidence. So as an explanation if he was lying he would have to create a story to cover his deception.

I have been closely studying Living Hope Ministries Bible vs. the Book of Mormon. FAIR at its You Tube channel put up its own film a few days ago. But in the film some of the critics saw the lack of manuscript evidence for the book as evidence Joseph Smith had no plates. Certain critics think if he really had plates he would have no need for an angel to take them back. Rather the plates would be on display somewhere. I would agree with them were it not for the evidences that gives me hope to trust his story.

Book of Mormon evidences to me satisfy me no 19th century guy alone wrote the book. To me i have seen some of those evidences survive some tough critical scrutiny. But if i had nothing outside Joseph Smiths word i would agree with critics he was a fraud. To me the evidence gives me hope i can rely on Joseph Smiths word. And to avoid making ourselves victims of decieving men we should accept nobody's word on their sayso alone.

Doubts and questions are a part of religion. And i see lots of issues ambiguous. So living with not knowing based on evidence alone is a reality. I live with having faith in what i do not know.

There is always multiple interpretations for everything. There are some people who say that the holocaust never happened, there are some who say we never landed on the moon, etc. etc… every single “fact” that exists can be debated, interpreted different ways etc. etc… like Perry model – have to realize that there are no "100% proven" facts, and base your decisions on personal values... Kroll’s intellectual progression from being “ignorantly certain” to being “ intelligently confused”.

"The only truths are in systems of belief." - my old chem prof. Dr. Sloan

I think the plates were taken so that there would be no “translation wars” resulting in 100eds of versions of the BoM as with the Bible…

[richlittell]

It is most certainly fun stuff to come across something that makes the Book of Mormon historically more plausible. Since we are all different, some people might need those bits of evidence to spur them on. Of course, nearly all evidence on nearly all matters can be "disputed" by someone, so in the end, it's the Holy Spirit that testifies to each of us. But it sure doesn't hurt to have a bit of seemingly historical evidence.

Wanted to tell you thanks for the link! I actually read this in a gold prospectors magazine. This is when I first started to investigate.
As you look through history there are a lot of interesting discoveries in the field of archeology...and within the field of biblical archeology.
Along those lines i think that we need to be very careful on how we take these things. First when a new discoveries are made we need to wait till all the hooplah so to speak has died down and the evidence is in.

But i do have a questions for everyine reading this. Is there an actual site for the BoM archeology? I have been trying to find one but have not been able too!
thanks
me.

[Maya]

I like to follow with Mormon Sites - rising from the dust...

[changed]

Originally Posted by ex19k

Is there an actual site for the BoM archeology? I have been trying to find one but have not been able too!
thanks
me.

The old world (Lehi’s journey from Jerusalem to Bountiful) before they crossed the ocean we know the actual sites. This is because we know the starting place (Jerusalem) and the BoM tells us how many days they traveled and in what direction they traveled in. There are sites for:
• A - Valley of Lemuel (with River of Laman) (1 Nephi 2:6–10.)
• B - Shazer (1 Nephi 16:13–14.)
• C - Possible area of the camp of Nephi's broken bow (1 Nephi 16:18.)
• D - Probable Nahom {1 Nephi 16:34.)
• E - Bountiful (site of ship construction and departure for New World) {1 Nephi 17:5–7.)
We can be pretty certain about these sites,
see the following link.

The problem with the New world is that we don’t yet have a specific starting point or any point for reference. We know from the number of days it took people to walk from place to place which tells us how large of an area the BoM covers (about the same size as Israel) we also know that it is a narrow neck of land. Some people have speculated that this might be a small area up near the great lakes. Most people believe that this took place in Mesoamerica though. Many believe the Mayans and Olmecs – who date to the right times and right place with right types of buildings, cultures, writing sytems, wars etc… are the Nephites and Jaredites.

New world sites

[Hemidakota]

I would stick with Southern Mexico and Central America region vice North America as the starting point.

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by ex19k

Is there an actual site for the BoM archeology? I have been trying to find one but have not been able too!
thanks
me.

It's not an official site, but there's a lot of information about the MesoAmerican theory of Book of Mormon geography at:

Mormon Sites - rising from the dust...