BoM evidences

[Vanhin]

Though it is true that we have all kinds of evidence that the Bible is of ancient origin, and not the fabrication of one man, we don't have evidence to support the truthfulness of every claim or event found in the Bible, and we certainly have no proof besides the testimony of the Holy Ghost that the Bible is the word of God. In other words, we can verify the authenticity of the Bible, but not it's divinity except by the testimony of the Holy Ghost.

The Book of Mormon is in an entirely different predicament, and understanding that helps us understand why God, perhaps, has not allowed definite physical proof to be forthcoming. If even one item of proof as to the authenticity of the Book of Mormon is found, that would also prove it's divinity. There would be no other explanation for how Joseph Smith could know such things without divine aid. Especially since the source (gold plates) are not to be found on the earth at this time.

All the scientists, archeologists, preachers, and peoples of the World would in one accord have to admit that not only is the Book of Mormon of ancient origin, and thus a reliable source in the study of the ancient inhabitants of the Americas, they would also have to admit that it came to Joseph Smith by divine, or supernatural means. Considering the context of Joseph Smith's day, and the knowledge available to the world at that time, there really is no other explanation.

This, of course, would frustrate the chances of many in developing the faith necessary for salvation. Sure, many would be compelled to believe and might join the Church, but many would do so without the trial of faith that accompanies the discovery of the Book of Mormon in our current state of not having "proof". Others would simply reject the Book of Mormon, dispite the proof, to their great condemnation.

The Book of Mormon was written for our day, to convince the world that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and that faith on His name will bring salvation to our souls. Developing faith in Christ is necessary, and the Book of Mormon facilitates this from the start. It is something tangible that we can hold in our hands to read, ponder, and pray about. That simple process accompanied by a trial of faith leads to a witness by the power of the Holy Ghost of it's truthfulness. Again, this would also prove that Joseph Smith was a prophet, which proves that God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him, which proves that Jesus lives and established his Church again in the latter days and that he sent heavenly messengers to restore the priesthood, which of course, proves that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-days Saints is everything it claims to be. The restored Church of Jesus Christ, in these latter days.

It is important that individuals seek and gain a testimony by the power of the Holy Ghost through the process of faith. This is not just the only way to salvation, it is for our protection. The day may come soon, when the Lord allows the proof to be discovered, but I recommend that the criticts of the Book take this opportunity to develop faith and gain a testimony of it the right way before that day. What will you do then? Accept Mormonism?

Sincerely,
Vanhin

[changed]

Originally Posted by Vanhin

Though it is true that we have all kinds of evidence that the Bible is of ancient origin, and not the fabrication of one man, we don't have evidence to support the truthfulness of every claim or event found in the Bible, and we certainly have no proof besides the testimony of the Holy Ghost that the Bible is the word of God. In other words, we can verify the authenticity of the Bible, but not it's divinity except by the testimony of the Holy Ghost.

The Book of Mormon is in an entirely different predicament, and understanding that helps us understand why God, perhaps, has not allowed definite physical proof to be forthcoming. If even one item of proof as to the authenticity of the Book of Mormon is found, that would also prove it's divinity. There would be no other explanation for how Joseph Smith could know such things without divine aid. Especially since the source (gold plates) are not to be found on the earth at this time.

I have to disagree here – consider Jesus – Jesus walked around performing miracles right in front of people, and not everyone became a believer. They did not have ancient artifacts they had to interpret – 2000 years ago they had the flesh and blood person walking around right in front of them, and that still was not enough. It does not matter what you show some people, they will be stubborn and will refuse to see what is right in front of their face.

All the scientists, archeologists, preachers, and peoples of the World would in one accord have to admit that not only is the Book of Mormon of ancient origin, and thus a reliable source in the study of the ancient inhabitants of the Americas, they would also have to admit that it came to Joseph Smith by divine, or supernatural means. Considering the context of Joseph Smith's day, and the knowledge available to the world at that time, there really is no other explanation.

Over and over again it has been shown the Joseph in fact did know many things that were unknown at the time. As I said before, nothing will be proof to these people, Jesus coming down from heaven and telling them to their face would not be proof enough for them. . The same people who stoned the prophets of old and preferred scribes and Pharisees to their savior would do the same thing today.

sorry, that was harsh, but that is what I see in some people.

[Hemidakota]

In proving BoM evidence to the 'naysayers' reminds of President Young that illustrates a story of the same concerning the old man that came to Noah [Journal of Discourses Vol 8 pg 230];

Did you ever hear the story of an old man that came to Noah when he was building the ark? "What, Mr. Noah, are you still at the ark? You are a veritable old fool, building an ark far away from any water! How are you going to float it?" "Wait a little while, and I will show you: by-and-by the Lord will break up the mighty deep and send forth the waters and drown the wicked." "Oh, you are a fool, Noah! You had better build a good house, and plant and till the earth. I am going home," &c. "Go on," said Noah; "by-and-by you will learn that I am right." They waited year after year, and by-and-by the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the rain began to descend. The old man came along, and Noah said to him, "What do you think now, neighbour?" "Oh, this is only a shower; it looks like clearing up; it will soon be over." In a short time the old man came again, wading in water to his knees, when Noah said, "Well, what do you think now?" "Oh, it will soon clear away." He came again, and that time he was paddling along in water up to his neck, and said, "Won't you take me in, Noah?" "I have got my load; all who have received tickets are aboard, and those who have not tickets cannot come aboard. What do you think of it now, old man, is it only a little shower?" Then it was not, "Damn old Noah!" but they were crying, "Oh, Mr. Noah, take us in." By-and-by it will be, "Mr. Smith, won't you have a little compassion on us?" "No," Joseph will say; "you would not take a ticket when I offered it to you by my brethren; you refused my tickets, and said it was 'nothing but a shower, we guess it will pass off.'" According to the words of the Saviour, "As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the coming of the Son of Man."

[Vanhin]

Originally Posted by changed

I have to disagree here – consider Jesus – Jesus walked around performing miracles right in front of people, and not everyone became a believer. They did not have ancient artifacts they had to interpret – 2000 years ago they had the flesh and blood person walking around right in front of them, and that still was not enough.

Well, I'm not sure you have understood my post. My argument is not that everyone would become a "believer" if physical proof of the Book of Mormon was forthcoming. So, already you are responding to a claim I did not make. The remainder of your post is in responce to this false premise.

In the interest of clarifying my point, which I think is valid, I offer the following:

My post makes it clear that physical proof does NOT make one a believer, and that it may hinder the process of developing faith. That, I hypothesized, might be the reason why proof of the Book of Mormon has not been made available to us yet.

Proof of the authenticity of the Bible (which is ample), does not prove it's divinity. In my post I explained, by contrast, how proof of the authenticity of the Book of Mormon would also prove that it is divine. First let me explain that.

1) No one knew about the Lehites, Zoramites, Mulekites, Jaredites, or hardly anything about the ancient civilations of the Americas during Joseph Smiths day.

2) Joseph Smith produced a book that makes a lot of claims about civilizations that have not yet been authenticated. Evidence exists, but not smoking gun yet.

3) Joseph Smith claimed that the source of the book were some metal plates that he translated by the gift and power of God, and that the plates were taken away after the translation by an angel.

4) Since there is no way Joseph could have known about these things, and since the plates are not here for us to examine, if one item of proof is produced by archeology, then it not only authenticates the book but also the prophet who produced it; since there would be no other possible explanation for how Joseph could have produced the book.

That situation would leave un-believers is a pretty bad situation. Some might be compelled to accept it (though not in faith) because of the proof, and others might reject it because of pride, to their condemnation. I say condemnation because now they know Joseph Smith was right, and they still reject it.

My point was, it is better that proof is not forthcoming so that people are more likely to exercise faith unto repentance, and truly become converted to the Lord, than for them to all out reject our message dispite the physical proof.

So, let me ask this. If proof emerges - let's say we find an artifact that identifies Lehi and his family, and science authenticates it, for example - what other explanation would there be at that point for how Joseph knew it and no one else in the world did?

Regards,
Vanhin

[Hemidakota]

Concur with Vanhin. Even those who witnessed the Savior during His mortal probation did not believe on Him. Even so, for those who have evidence that the BoM is true, still will not believe.

The proof comes after exercising our faith....

[truthwalker]

This is rubbish, i dont believe that we can know all truth through the holy spirit. God tells us to read and study the scriptures, science and all history, about kingdoms and so on. Jesus Christ knew the scriptures, he was a carpenter, he studied his environment and used them in metaphors and stories to tell. It is very important that we find evidence of the book of mormon. And Book of Mormon Evidences - Are LDS Scriptures Supported by Science? looked like a nice site.
We can not exclude anything. nearly all knowledge is good. Why should we study biology, science, history, chemistry or whatever when all we need is the priesthood?
Sounds to me like amish people. the priesthood is the force of Jesus Christ. But he was not the first. So what is this force? We dont know. But probably secrets about the universe, spiritual and physical.

If any member in the church believes that you can receive all knowledge through the holy spirit. Why dont we all stop study then and just read the scriptures and then graduate in all our different colleges?
Have we forgot that the priesthood is truth, light and intelligence?
The priesthood and the holy spirit is true logic to the mind. Logic is not physical and from satan. Logic is from God. its not nothing bad that contradicts the spiritual feeling and guidance. Can anyone here distinguish from pure logic and when you had your spiritual guidance feeling? Its the same.
Feeling we give credit to the holy spirit is often just physical feelings due to the effect that people in a large or small group give each other when they all agree and say amen. But pure feelings from the holy spirit is when we have pure logic and intelligence in our mind, when we see all things clear. But to reach this level we not only need to pray and go to the church. We need to study the scriptures and study the science of life. all together this give us a complete and fulfilled person. Sometimes christian people need to be separated. Together in a group they after a while tends to be like a sect, or like the people of Sion who went to heaven.. All depends on how they do it.

[jimuk]

Knowledge is indeed a great thing to have, this is true, but it is not always needed in scripture, yes we should read the scriptures, but there are those that are unable to study them.
Do you think because some are blind some are severely handicapped that heavenly father would deny them a testimony, no he wouldent, this truth would come from the holy spirit.
As i have said before, no matter how much one reads this does not make him or her an authority on heavenly father, this Authority comes through the power of the Holy Ghost, the only sure way of knowing if the things that are written in that great book, the book of mormon is by the holy spirit. sometimes i personally feel that some folk forget just how powerful this spirit is, and why he is with us.
When we have a true Testimony of him, nobody, however versed for or against the Book of Mormon is going to change a thing. The more people try to sway our beliefs with their supposed knowledge of " OUR " church the stronger The Holy spirit kicks in and holds us fast, thus the only thing they have achieved is to strenghthen our testimony.

[Mykdiver]

Good point about knowledge, but no one said that we do not need knowledge, or educations. What they said was that when it comes to Scriptures we do not need physical proof, all we need is faith.

[Hemidakota]

From exercising faith, we receive knowledge.

[Mykdiver]

True, but as the other guys said we still need to educate ourselves.