BoM evidences

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Originally Posted by Vanhin

So, let me ask this. If proof emerges - let's say we find an artifact that identifies Lehi and his family, and science authenticates it, for example - what other explanation would there be at that point for how Joseph knew it and no one else in the world did?

Regards,
Vanhin

OK, I agree with you.
funny you should mension Lehi and his family....

Did you know that the name Lihy, is found on inscriptions throughout the al-Ula valley? Not only was the name Lehi frequently found, but Nefi and Sam as well. We all know Lehi loved to preach - that is where their trouble in Jerusalem starts - it appears that Lehi was preaching all the way down the Arabian peninsula on their way to Bountiful. He made some converts too. It seems that an entire tribe changed their name to "the Lihyanites". The Lihymanites can be traced back to late in the sixth century B.C., came to power in northwest Arabia, and ruled a large area of the peninsula for over 300 years.
link

another link

link

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

The proof comes after exercising our faith....

I would say the proof is always there, you just don’t recognize it until you have gone through the “faith” part.

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Originally Posted by truthwalker

This is rubbish, i dont believe that we can know all truth through the holy spirit. God tells us to read and study the scriptures, science and all history, about kingdoms and so on. Jesus Christ knew the scriptures, he was a carpenter, he studied his environment and used them in metaphors and stories to tell. It is very important that we find evidence of the book of mormon. And Book of Mormon Evidences - Are LDS Scriptures Supported by Science? looked like a nice site.
We can not exclude anything. nearly all knowledge is good. Why should we study biology, science, history, chemistry or whatever when all we need is the priesthood?
Sounds to me like amish people. the priesthood is the force of Jesus Christ. But he was not the first. So what is this force? We dont know. But probably secrets about the universe, spiritual and physical.

If any member in the church believes that you can receive all knowledge through the holy spirit. Why dont we all stop study then and just read the scriptures and then graduate in all our different colleges?
Have we forgot that the priesthood is truth, light and intelligence?
The priesthood and the holy spirit is true logic to the mind. Logic is not physical and from satan. Logic is from God. its not nothing bad that contradicts the spiritual feeling and guidance. Can anyone here distinguish from pure logic and when you had your spiritual guidance feeling? Its the same.
Feeling we give credit to the holy spirit is often just physical feelings due to the effect that people in a large or small group give each other when they all agree and say amen. But pure feelings from the holy spirit is when we have pure logic and intelligence in our mind, when we see all things clear. But to reach this level we not only need to pray and go to the church. We need to study the scriptures and study the science of life. all together this give us a complete and fulfilled person. Sometimes christian people need to be separated. Together in a group they after a while tends to be like a sect, or like the people of Sion who went to heaven.. All depends on how they do it.

I agree - did you read post on 2nd page on how I think G-d teaches us? Autonomous learning. I mean if the point is that some of us will become Gods, a God better know how to think for themselves…. I think we are learning how to learn as well as learning “facts”. The doctrine of eternal progression applies to the Gods. Eternal progression means we have to continue learning and progressing… We are learning how to think and how to problem solve etc… Learning how to trust and have faith in others – Does a God have to have faith? Possibly, if Their children have free will they do not control… just a thought.


88:118 And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith.

(I’m not sure how God being “all knowing” fits in with eternal progression, any comments? I do agree with the Kolab song – no end to glory, no end to love, no end to being, etc. etc… no end to progression, no end to learning, to experiencing, to everything – or it would not be “heaven”…)

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Originally Posted by jimuk

Knowledge is indeed a great thing to have, this is true, but it is not always needed in scripture, yes we should read the scriptures, but there are those that are unable to study them.
Do you think because some are blind some are severely handicapped that heavenly father would deny them a testimony, no he wouldent, this truth would come from the holy spirit.
As i have said before, no matter how much one reads this does not make him or her an authority on heavenly father, this Authority comes through the power of the Holy Ghost, the only sure way of knowing if the things that are written in that great book, the book of mormon is by the holy spirit. sometimes i personally feel that some folk forget just how powerful this spirit is, and why he is with us.
When we have a true Testimony of him, nobody, however versed for or against the Book of Mormon is going to change a thing. The more people try to sway our beliefs with their supposed knowledge of " OUR " church the stronger The Holy spirit kicks in and holds us fast, thus the only thing they have achieved is to strenghthen our testimony.

and how do you receive the Holy Spirit? through study, and pondering, and thinking, and reading, and asking. In my experience, (I am a convert) you study something out, then you ask if it is true. That is when the Holy Spirit bears witness to you for or against, but it is up to you to study it out and ask - if you don't ask, if you think you know it all and don't need to question anything, if you never knock...If your mind is a blank screen that has read nothing and thought about nothing… I don’t see much progression happening there… nothing will be opened to you... IMO.

Study (see also Education; Knowledge; Learning; Meditation; Read; Scriptures, Study of; Search; Understanding; Wisdom)
Prov. 15:28 heart of the righteous s. to answer
Eccl. 12:12 much s. is a weariness of the flesh
John 5:39 Search the scriptures
1 Tim. 4:13 give attendance to reading
2 Tim. 2:15 S. to shew thyself approved unto God
2 Pet. 1:5 add to your ... virtue knowledge
2 Ne. 9:42 whoso knocketh, to him will he open
2 Ne. 32:3 feast upon the words of Christ
Mosiah 1:7 (Alma 17:2) search them diligently, that ye may profit
Mosiah 13:11 ye have s. and taught iniquity
3 Ne. 23:1 ye ought to search these things
Moro. 10:3 ponder it in your hearts
D&C 1:37 Search these commandments, for they are true
D&C 9:8 s. it out in your mind
D&C 11:22 s. my word which shall come forth
D&C 26:1 let your time be devoted to the studying of scriptures
D&C 84:85 treasure up in your minds continually the words of life
D&C 88:118 (109:7, 14) seek learning, even by s. and also by faith
D&C 90:15 s. and learn, and become acquainted with all good books
JS-M 1:37 treasureth up my word, shall not be deceived
See also Matt. 7:7; Luke 2:52; 1 Cor. 8:2; 1 Thes. 5:21; Mosiah 21:36; Alma 13:20.

[jimuk]

I personally first felt the power of the Holy Ghost whilst listening to, two great guys from the west coast of America (Missionaries) they spoke to me with such conviction and love for my family and for Heavenly father and Jesus, that a great feeling of contentment and piece overcame me. All this before " I " started to Read the Book of Mormon. I knew that i had never felt this way before, it was all new to me, i had been into drugs, and this power that came over me was tremendous, no drug or alcohol would ever make me feel this way.
What profit would i gain from spending my time reading and studying, of course i read, but i do not do it to gain points over anyone. it may well give me the "Knowledge" to argue this or that point about church history, but i leave this to those that are more inclined/called to this kind of knowledge, i personally get my inspiration from the spirit when baring my Testimony to others as to the Holy ghost, heavenly father and Jesus Christ.

If Heavenly father has seen fit to allow me the experience of the Holy Ghost, which witnesses to me all the time the truthfulness of the church and that has stayed with me since the day of my baptism, then again i leave the searching to those more Learned people in the church, of whom i have great respect, but i personally do not need to go so deep, I KNOW for a surety that heavenly father loves me, i know for a surety that Jesus died for every person on this earth, i Have a true witness to the truth that joseph smith was a prophet of god and that his work was to restore Christs church on the earth, ALL This i know because the Spirit of God makes it known to me.

Jesus's Teachings were simple, To love our heavenly father, and to love our neighbour.

[Mykdiver]

Very well put I could not have said it better myself. What you said is what it comes down to, true faith does not come from knowledge!
I have true faith, but I also love gaining the knowledge to go along with it.

[jimuk]

Mykdiver Hi,
I do read and love reading, but i am really not as learned as most of the good guys on here so my inspiration has to come from somewhere and what better place than heaven.

Because of this, i can feed off of the more " Knowledgeable " people, these are my teachers, the Holy ghost lets me know if the things i am reading here are good or bad.

[Mykdiver]

Me too, I have been a member for 2 years now, and did not have religion in my life up until that point, so I have a strong desire to learn and to study the Scriptures, but I am far from knowledgeable.

[Hemidakota]

Remarkable posts...

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by Mykdiver

Very well put I could not have said it better myself. What you said is what it comes down to, true faith does not come from knowledge!
I have true faith, but I also love gaining the knowledge to go along with it.

"And when we gain knowledge in that thing that we *used* to
have faith in, then that new knowledge introduces us to new
realms of possibility, in which we can now exercise new faith.
So, rather than knowledge eliminating faith, what it does is
spark or create whole new vistas in which faith for the
first time becomes active."


HiJolly

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by jimuk

I personally first felt the power of the Holy Ghost whilst listening to, two great guys from the west coast of America (Missionaries) they spoke to me with such conviction and love for my family and for Heavenly father and Jesus, that a great feeling of contentment and piece overcame me. All this before " I " started to Read the Book of Mormon. I knew that i had never felt this way before, it was all new to me, i had been into drugs, and this power that came over me was tremendous, no drug or alcohol would ever make me feel this way.
What profit would i gain from spending my time reading and studying, of course i read, but i do not do it to gain points over anyone. it may well give me the "Knowledge" to argue this or that point about church history, but i leave this to those that are more inclined/called to this kind of knowledge, i personally get my inspiration from the spirit when baring my Testimony to others as to the Holy ghost, heavenly father and Jesus Christ.

If Heavenly father has seen fit to allow me the experience of the Holy Ghost, which witnesses to me all the time the truthfulness of the church and that has stayed with me since the day of my baptism, then again i leave the searching to those more Learned people in the church, of whom i have great respect, but i personally do not need to go so deep, I KNOW for a surety that heavenly father loves me, i know for a surety that Jesus died for every person on this earth, i Have a true witness to the truth that joseph smith was a prophet of god and that his work was to restore Christs church on the earth, ALL This i know because the Spirit of God makes it known to me.

Jesus's Teachings were simple, To love our heavenly father, and to love our neighbour.

Great message jimuk, thanks much. I'd like to post this elsewhere too if you don't mind...