BoM evidences

[changed]

what sites have you found? Here are a few I have run across:

click on the pict links:
Book of Mormon Evidences - Are LDS Scriptures Supported by Science?
photo link

Mormon Truth and Book of Mormon Evidences: Not Proof, But Indications of Plausibility

Ancient America Foundation

Is the Book of Mormon really an ancient book? Nibley quotes link

[goofball]

Prayed about it. All I needed but you will find that you may not be able to prove the Book of Mormon through secular reasoning. At least not we continue to learn more on this mortal existence.

I remember reading this old book that was written speaking of our bodies being composed of small minute/microscopic molecules. The author was ridiculed for such a silly notion. As we know now this is true. For me just a small example of how our mortal knowledge is limited.

[Deborah]

The greatest evidence for me is the message of the text. There is no sermon more profound than Alma's sermon on the Atonement. We have been told the book was written for our time and it becomes clear to me as I read it that it is indeed a warning for out day.

[PapilioMemnon]

There's no greater evidence and power to me than the testimony of the Holy Ghost! It's distinct from any other common feeling... it's powerful and clear... sharp, it "burns within''; it's amazing!
But I do rejoice much when the "veil begins to burst" to others
Many things will be discovered by men

[Moksha]

The two strongest I have run across is that there is site on the Arabian peninsula that bears a name somewhat like a name in the Book of Mormon.

The other is there is some Chiasmus found in both the OT and the BOM.

[Mykdiver]

I was just going to say that I do not need anyone researching the BoM and telling me whether or not it is based in history, or if it is possible. I have received my answer, and I know it is true! It feels great to know that something is true beyond a shadow of a doubt!

[bytor2112]

Echoes and Evidences of the Book of Mormon is a good read...... but nothing compares to the Holy Spirit.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by PapilioMemnon

There's no greater evidence and power to me than the testimony of the Holy Ghost! It's distinct from any other common feeling... it's powerful and clear... sharp, it "burns within''; it's amazing!
But I do rejoice much when the "veil begins to burst" to others
Many things will be discovered by men

I totally agree with that statement. When we reach the pinnacle of probation, we shall corporal know Him, as He truly is...

[changed]

I agree - it is fun to read about this stuff, but you need the Holy Spirit, not archeology etc.

So when someone wants to come debate you about "no evidence" what do you do? I mean you can sit there and debate them that there is evidence (and there is) but it does no good, you can interpret things multiple ways, and you are not supposed to convince someone of the truthfulness through physical evidence… what do you say?

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sorry for the long read, the following are some things I have posted on the sub, articles that teachers use - not relig but it applies.

There are many different models for intellectual development, here is one of the original ones. All the models center around the ability to first recognize and then deal with uncertainty. The lowest level is dualist – where they think everything can be “proven” fact or fiction, black or white, no uncertainty, nothing that cannot be proven… the most mature level is someone who recognizes that they cannot prove anything, and learn how to make decisions based on personal values – yes, you research it but you cannot prove anything so the decision comes down to personal values and morals…

The Perry Model of Intellectual and Ethical Development

Stages of Cognitive Development
#1: Dualistic Thinking
Students generally believe knowledge is certain and unambiguous: black/white, right/wrong
Questions have immutable, objective answers
Students generally believe authorities possess valuable wisdom that contains eternal truths

Transitions in Cognitive Development 1-2:
Certainty yields to uncertainty and ambiguity

#2: Multiplicity
Students come to believe that where uncertainty exists, knowledge and truth are essentially subjective and personal

Transitions in Cognitive Development 2-3:
Students come to recognize that mere opinion is insufficient because specific critieria help evaluate the usefulness and validity of knowledge claims:
• methodology • empirical evidence
• explanatory power • predictive power
• logical consistency
• positive vs. normative conclusions

#3: Contextual-Relativism
Students come to believe that even where uncertainty exists, people must make choices about premises, frameworks, hypotheses, and theories to apply; policy conclusions are not self-evident

Transitions in Cognitive Development 3-4:
Students may come to recognize that even in a world of uncertainty, they must make choices (whether about ideas, hypotheses, theories, or policies). These choices require methods of critical thinking.

#4: Context-Appropriate Decisions
Students may come to acknowledge that choices require analysis and values. Knowledge, theories, and methods are imperfect and uncertain, thus personal choices require acknowledging personal responsibility that follows from personal values.
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http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/lockers/u...s/IntDev-I.pdf

"Kroll describes intellectual growth as the progression from “ignorant certainty” to “intelligent confusion”….

Nothing can be considered certain. All observations and data, whether obtained through the human senses or with sophisticated instruments, involve uncertainty, and all attempts to explain, correlate, or model the observations and data must be considered hypothetical, approximate, contextually limited, and subject to subsequent modification…"

there are very few absolute answers for us in this life….
In the end, it is not about proof and evidence, it is about personal values…

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For those who have not yet felt the Holy Spirit - I take a lot of it on faith too – not all of it, but a lot of it. ... life is not all facts and proofs, free will, uncertainty, emotions, personal perspectives, there is a world beyond facts and proofs. Facts exist, but we have a very limited ability to understand the facts, we have to realize that our decisions are based on personal values more than on what we think we might be able to prove…

Here is an article to ponder, not a relig article, written for teachers, I teach off and on. Anyways, I think it is relevant.

How does God teach us? I do not think God uses facts and proofs - I think His teaching style involves making us learn and think for our self...

Weaning – or encouraging Autonomous Learning by Larry Spence

At 8:30 AM she stood up in class. I wanted to sit. She glared, shooting me with her eyes. “I’m paying good money for this class,” her thin hands shook. “My parents are sacrificing. It’s your job to just tell us what this book means.” She waved a worn copy of Immanuel Kant’s essay, On the old saw: That May be true in Theory but it does not Apply in Practice.


“I can do that, but it will burden the rest of your life.”

“what do you mean?”

“You will always have to take me with you. If you marry, I’ll be there. On your honeymoon, I’ll be there. You will need a special room to keep me in your house. I misplace coffee cups and scatter paper clips. I’ll need a desk next to yours at work. A special seat where I can work in your car…”

“Stop it!” she shouted. “I don’t want to drag a professor through life.”

“Good,” I said. “Then I can’t tell you what the book means. Think of all the books, articles, policy papers, and memos that you will have to read. If you don’t know how to understand them, you will be lost as a citizen, a worker, and an individual. So you can either figure out what Kant means or you can adopt me for life.”

The class’s growing laughter filled the room as they imagined living with a seriously uncool prof. “But weren’t you paid to teach us?” asked a burly tight end.

“No, it is my job to see that you learn how to discover the meaning yourself.”

“This class is weird,” came a comment from the baseball cap section.

Students expectation that I could explain the world marred every course I taught. Their intellectual dependence was frightening. On bad days, they were so docile and dependent I understood how good storm troopers were made… But Oh, in the classroom the dependency is sticky and thick. Students seem indifferent, confused, and desirous only of getting this grade, that course, and eventually the big ticket degree. The best strive for that special relationship, “teacher’s pet.” They work to say all those things that feed faculty egos. For many years, I saw little hope of developing autonomous learners. Then I made a discovery.
A group of my students toured with a national champion drum and bugle corps. I went to see them perform. Their precision, quality, and panache astounded me.I could not believe they were the same creatures that shuffled through my courses. They worked twelve hours a day on their musical skills, slept on gym floors, and were driven from city to city without relief. They wre disciplined adults.

I walked away with words like “co-dependency” and “enabling” ringing in my ears. My best efforts taught students that to learn was to follow instructions. They didn’t need that or my careful explanations, or my crafted syllabi. They needed access to the world’s scholarship and some tough coaching like they got in the bugle corps. And most of all they needed choice and opportunities to pursue their own passions for inquiry and expression.

Maybe we smother the best learning instincts of our students. Seymour Papert writes, “ the scandal of education is that every time you teach something, you deprive a child of the pleasure of discovery.” Maybe we should stop chewing and pre-digesting the intellectual food we give our students. We need not joke and enact an excitement we wish they had. We need focus on learning, and not the comfort of the learners.

In earlier times, people took the passion and energy of adolescents as signs of maturity. They weaned them on responsibilities. The impetuous George Washington was surveying frontier lands by the age of sixteen. By 21, with only a few months of formal education, he could ford rivers, chart mountains, charm legislators, and lead troops. Lord Fairfax wrote his mother that he was, “a man who will go to school all his life.” Washington’s classrooms were the forest, the battlefield, and the halls of government. He never asked what was going to be in the final.

ok...monkey wrench time...at least for me... Everyone...Great words on the spirit!
However....some people do have a passion for this kinda thing...like me! I love the research that is done in the name of science...and hey...if it helps to promote the gospel that i hold so dear, oh yeah..as the old archeologist once said...Have trowel will travel!
To me the discoveries that are being made today are amazing! not to mention that they are re-writing history every day! Now..let me ask you something...if they found say a rock..in the U S say in the New Mexico area that had a phonecian style of hebrew that had the 10 commandments on it. that this writing was used about 600BC and when discovered in the 1800's was thought to be a joke. well....i for one went...hmmmm...do tell. if you want will try to find that link again....
My point is this..I am a recently new convert. And well...to me...what i described above is a real thing that happened. the rock is there..so are the words. No one knows how they got there...but..i have a theory. I may be wrong but I may never know. Has it helped my faith..a little..it helped me understand alot. That yes. there may be evedence out there that we do not know about. Sometimes items like that help people that are struggling with thier faith or help an investigator find faith in a new faith so to speak.
All i do know is this The Spcriptures teach us this...
Hebrews 11
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Alma
21 And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

Very good topic changed! Anyones thoughts on this? or am i totally in left field?