Another religion site

[ldsmissionary]

Originally Posted by justamere10

Knocking on doors may not be glamorous but I and a growing number of my family for generations to come will be forever grateful for the two young missionaries who knocked on my door and taught me the Gospel.

I can understand that. My family was a knocked family. But it's not the glamor game. It's the efficiency game.

Missionaries are taught in the MTC to avoid knocking doors like the plague. It's an activity for when there's absolutely NOTHING else that can be done. And if the missionaries begin thinking of knocking doors, they should explore every other option to avoid it. Because it's ineffective. It's marketing yuck.

When missionaries are living right they are guided by the Spirit. That includes I'm sure being inspired to knock on the right doors.

Soooo, if the 'right' doors don't get knocked (e.g. failure to make a sale) it's because God is punishing the missionaries for not living 'right' enough?

Because the reality is that unworthy missionaries are baptizing in huge numbers anywhere south of the border and parts of Africa. Hundreds. And unworthy.

But even the worthiest of all righteous men/women come home with zero baptisms almost anywhere else.

I think it also builds great skills in our young men. After returning from a mission, one of my sons knocked on doors as a salesman each summer and put himself through university.

Is it really all that great of a skill to be able to knock a door and pitch a sale? Is this what RM's have to look forward to when they get home? 'Welcome home, Elder. With your great door-knocking skills, you can tackle the world!' (Intentional dramatics.)

Seems to me your son was living right. He knocked on the 'right' doors during University to earn some money.

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by StallionMcBeastly

Man, I was over there defending our LDS religion and sharing my testimony and I see so much hate and disrespect spewed on the forum and chat room. I do not understand how other Christians can speak such hate towards another?

I used to spend time at CARM as well, and finally had to leave. It is a vile place when it comes to discussing Mormonism.

I am an ex-Mormon, but enjoy visiting different sites, and if I can, dispelling as many myths as possible about Morminism. More often than not, I found the forum's members glad for the clairifications. I'm not saying I found lots of these forums, as I did not. I'm just saying, of those I did find, they were usally grateful for my perspective.

So, when I found CARM, I thought I'd have the same experience, but it took me a while to realize they weren't interested in anything other than insisting The Godmakers was THE truth. When I adamantly insisted it was not, they accused me of being a troll, and lying about my ex-membership.

Thus my utter disdain for Ed Decker was born.

Elphaba

[WANDERER]

I have visited MAD...as a reader, not as a contributer. as the place is a kind of newbie poster hell. But the conversations are very interesting. While the discussions can be heated there are tangents in discussions that are worth investigating. Though it is a very closed kind of forum in my view...you wouldn't want to accidentally trigger off a religious lynching frenzy *LOL* although I would qualify it as much milder in reaction than you would get if you *trolled* (although trolls are few on the net...as in serious hobbyist trolls) a non-religious forum...depends on your perspective on things.

I may visit CARMS...perhaps.

Many are the forum lurkers and guests....I found it interesting that on one search I ended up trawling a conversation from as far back as 2002 for perspectives on something or other. There are some great conversations out there..and they are far more valid to read than FAIR or FARMS sometimes when you want a personal take on a belief.

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by ldsmissionary

I can understand that. My family was a knocked family. But it's not the glamor game. It's the efficiency game.

Missionaries are taught in the MTC to avoid knocking doors like the plague. It's an activity for when there's absolutely NOTHING else that can be done. And if the missionaries begin thinking of knocking doors, they should explore every other option to avoid it. Because it's ineffective. It's marketing yuck.

Soooo, if the 'right' doors don't get knocked (e.g. failure to make a sale) it's because God is punishing the missionaries for not living 'right' enough?

Because the reality is that unworthy missionaries are baptizing in huge numbers anywhere south of the border and parts of Africa. Hundreds. And unworthy.

But even the worthiest of all righteous men/women come home with zero baptisms almost anywhere else.

Is it really all that great of a skill to be able to knock a door and pitch a sale? Is this what RM's have to look forward to when they get home? 'Welcome home, Elder. With your great door-knocking skills, you can tackle the world!' (Intentional dramatics.)

Seems to me your son was living right. He knocked on the 'right' doors during University to earn some money.

I don't think I said anything about God "punishing" missionaries.

Don't they teach the young missionaries at MTC's to be obedient to their mission president?

When mission presidents arrive at their new mission home they deliberately have very little if any time with the outgoing president. That is so each mission president relies on the Spirit. The Spirit may emphasize door knocking in some missions at some times.

Young men and women learn a great deal while serving missions that can transfer to useful knowledge for the rest of their lifetimes. That could include foreign language and culture, discipline, obedience, hard work, leadership, cooperation, personal revelation, charity...

[ldsmissionary]

Originally Posted by justamere10

I don't think I said anything about God "punishing" missionaries.

It was, if missionaries live right, they're supposed to be guided to the 'right' doors.

What are we to derive from missionaries who knock their little fingers off but never make a sale? They weren't living right?

Don't they teach the young missionaries at MTC's to be obedient to their mission president?

Actually, missionaries at the MTC are taught to be obedient to the GOSPEL. Mission Presidents happen to have the great honor of hosting the missionaries during their time in the mission field.

Speaking back to the subject of door-knocking, mission presidents are being instructed to keep knocking to a minimum. It's a last resort of all of the possible mission activities that can be done.

When mission presidents arrive at their new mission home they deliberately have very little if any time with the outgoing president. That is so each mission president relies on the Spirit.

Deliberately? You have data to support this? My personal observation is that the new mission presidents are given adequate time with the outgoing mission presidents along with contact information to continue communication should anything come up down the road that needs clarification. The Area Authorities are also instructed to bend over backwards to make these transitions incredibly easy for the new mission presidents. If anything, the LDS church deliberately makes a tremendous effort to make new mission presidents' lives much easier than just 'drop 'em in the field and let the spirit guide.'

Young men and women learn a great deal while serving missions that can transfer to useful knowledge for the rest of their lifetimes. That could include foreign language and culture, discipline, obedience, hard work, leadership, cooperation, personal revelation, charity...

I completely agree. But we were talking about 'door-knocking' specifically, weren't we?

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by ldsmissionary

It was, if missionaries live right, they're supposed to be guided to the 'right' doors.

What are we to derive from missionaries who knock their little fingers off but never make a sale? They weren't living right?



Actually, missionaries at the MTC are taught to be obedient to the GOSPEL. Mission Presidents happen to have the great honor of hosting the missionaries during their time in the mission field.

Speaking back to the subject of door-knocking, mission presidents are being instructed to keep knocking to a minimum. It's a last resort of all of the possible mission activities that can be done.



Deliberately? You have data to support this? My personal observation is that the new mission presidents are given adequate time with the outgoing mission presidents along with contact information to continue communication should anything come up down the road that needs clarification. The Area Authorities are also instructed to bend over backwards to make these transitions incredibly easy for the new mission presidents. If anything, the LDS church deliberately makes a tremendous effort to make new mission presidents' lives much easier than just 'drop 'em in the field and let the spirit guide.'



I completely agree. But we were talking about 'door-knocking' specifically, weren't we?

It seems that you have had some different experiences with missionary work.

I very much disagree with your idea that missionaries are salesmen out to make a "sale".

I think it much more accurate to consider faithful missionaries as teachers of righteousness. They present to investigators a summary of God's Plan of Happiness and bear their own living testimonies of its truthfulness and eternal benefits. The Holy Spirit speaks to the investigators in His own way and that Spirit is what converts, not the missionaries.

Missionaries are expected to be obedient to their mission president and on down through zone and district leaders. As they keep the rules and live temple worthy and anxiously engage in the good cause set before them each morning, the Holy Spirit guides them and "coincidence" miracles occur almost daily.

Door knocking may not be the most effective way to get teaching opportunties, but door knocking is a frequent experience most likely for most young missionaries in most missions.

I fail to understand why you are arguing with me if you are in fact an experienced LDS Missionary and a faithful member of the LDS Church, as your screen name implies.

[ldsmissionary]

Originally Posted by justamere10

It seems that you have had some different experiences with missionary work.

Just noticed you served in China. Much success there?

I very much disagree with your idea that missionaries are salesmen out to make a "sale".

Which is expected.

The Holy Spirit speaks to the investigators in His own way and that Spirit is what converts, not the missionaries.

Sure, sure. But if we're completely honest, we know that the LDS church employs marketing teams to make this 'spiritual' conversion much easier. The LDS church has placed an incredible emphasis on knowing their customers, especially in the last 10 years. Their focus now is brand development rather than direct marketing.

After months of research, Kelly's team concluded that "people do not know the church or care about it." To increase awareness and understanding of the church, Kelly's team decided to shift from a direct marketing strategy to brand development.

Missionaries are expected to be obedient to their mission president and on down through zone and district leaders.

Sure, but weren't we talking about knocking doors? Politics within the mission field are a completely different beast to tackle.

As they keep the rules and live temple worthy and anxiously engage in the good cause set before them each morning, the Holy Spirit guides them and "coincidence" miracles occur almost daily.

Sales opportunities?

Door knocking may not be the most effective way to get teaching opportunties, but door knocking is a frequent experience most likely for most young missionaries in most missions.

I agree. All missionaries will have that task. It's sad that they have to resort to it.

I fail to understand why you are arguing with me if you are in fact an experienced LDS Missionary and a faithful member of the LDS Church, as your screen name implies.

My profile should still be working. I'm an open ex-Mormon. I did serve a full-time mission in Mexico.

The point we've been speaking to, for my part anyway, is knocking doors. I truly feel terrible that missionaries are reduced to knocking doors like vacuum cleaner salesmen.

This time could be better spent on humanitarian efforts rather than annoying people in their homes.

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by ldsmissionary

Just noticed you served in China. Much success there?

Sure, sure. But if we're completely honest, we know that the LDS church employs marketing teams to make this 'spiritual' conversion much easier. The LDS church has placed an incredible emphasis on knowing their customers, especially in the last 10 years. Their focus now is brand development rather than direct marketing.


Sure, but weren't we talking about knocking doors? Politics within the mission field are a completely different beast to tackle.

Sales opportunities?

I agree. All missionaries will have that task. It's sad that they have to resort to it.

My profile should still be working. I'm an open ex-Mormon. I did serve a full-time mission in Mexico.

The point we've been speaking to, for my part anyway, is knocking doors. I truly feel terrible that missionaries are reduced to knocking doors like vacuum cleaner salesmen.

This time could be better spent on humanitarian efforts rather than annoying people in their homes.

I understand you better now, thanks for revealing your apostate status.

Your screen name in my opinion is deceiving, sort of the proverbial 'wolf in sheep's clothing' is it not? Why do you use such a screen name when you are not an LDS missionary and are in fact critical of the Church and gospel you once believed to be true?

[ldsmissionary]

Originally Posted by justamere10

I understand you better now, thanks for revealing your apostate status.

Your screen name in my opinion is deceiving, sort of the proverbial 'wolf in sheep's clothing' is it not? Why do you use such a screen name when you are not an LDS missionary and are in fact critical of the Church and gospel you once believed to be true?

Weren't we just talking about knocking doors?

Can we simply speak to that point or must we zig zag about and then lean towards the ad hominem path?

Listen, if there weren't BELIEVING MORMONS hired to make critical decisions about the marketing strategies and growth initiatives of the LDS church, do you honestly think the Mormon gospel would have a fighting chance in today's competitive religious atmosphere?

The truth of the matter is that there has to be some amount of business sense in 'communicating' the message of the Mormon faith. Knocking doors is an old and archaic selling strategy.

I'm 100% for sharing the message of Mormonism.

On the professional level, I've helped believing marketing strategists at LDS, Inc. to explore answers to their questions about how to better spread their brand.

It's a good thing. It's okay to have friends that think and believe differently.

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by ldsmissionary

Weren't we just talking about knocking doors?

Can we simply speak to that point or must we zig zag about and then lean towards the ad hominem path?

Listen, if there weren't BELIEVING MORMONS hired to make critical decisions about the marketing strategies and growth initiatives of the LDS church, do you honestly think the Mormon gospel would have a fighting chance in today's competitive religious atmosphere?

The truth of the matter is that there has to be some amount of business sense in 'communicating' the message of the Mormon faith. Knocking doors is an old and archaic selling strategy.

I'm 100% for sharing the message of Mormonism.

On the professional level, I've helped believing marketing strategists at LDS, Inc. to explore answers to their questions about how to better spread their brand.

It's a good thing. It's okay to have friends that think and believe differently.

Fair enough. Except for your choice of screen names.