Noah and the flood.....

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by MarginOfError

I read in the October 2002 (?) issue of Discover Magazine (I'm fuzzy on the date, but I"m sure it was around then) about the moon and some comparisons between the geological structure of the moon and the earth. One of the things they pointed out was that the rocks on earth contain a certain amount of water. In fact, it was estimated, that if all of the water in those rocks could be drawn out, it would be enough water to fill the oceans six over. That's a lot of water! and I suppose one possible interpretation of the 'fountains of the great deep' (see below).

Disclaimer: I do not endorse this interpretation. Just food for thought.

Ok! That was quite interesting....

I was very impressed at a Sperry Symposium when a speaker regarding this subject remarked; “…we really don’t have the complete narrative details on what transpired before, during, and post deluge. Many attempts have been made to find other references of the Great Deluge to add further clarity to what geological events were enforced during this time period….”

I do note, even Hugh B. Nibley searched for years on this very topic. Two items that I found in his talks or articles, there was a great freeze at the end of Noah’s journey and something to the effect the location of building the ark was the Carolinas. My quest in forming my own testimony of this great debate years ago, was to answer a question from another church, what happened to the fresh water fish? After exhausting 18-months of research and prayer, I finally could go to the individual and answer that question. Even I was exceedingly surprised.

[deblldo]

Originally Posted by HiJolly

Where does the Bible say the flood was "global"?

Hi,

in genesis 6:13 God say's "The end of ALL flesh has come before me, for the EARTH is filled with violence them; and behold, I will destroy them WITH THE EARTH."

also again in verse 17, and chapter 7 verse's 3,4,6,10,12,17,18,19.

Also some more in chapter 8 but i think you get the idea.

deb.

[Hemidakota]

Remember, the term Earth may mean the area in which Noah was living. The biggest offense to GOD, as it was with Nimrod, the people collectivily lived in the same area and did not go forth and filled the Earth as commanded to Adam and Eve.

Originally Posted by bytor2112

I watched a Discovery channel program about whether the Biblical account really occurred. They made a pretty compelling case that Noah could not have built the Ark nor could there have been a worldwide flood. There isn't and geological evidence to support the story of the worldwide flood. So, is the account literal or perhaps a retelling of a Babylonian disaster that has been recorded in the Epic of Gilgamesh and other epics?

Count me with the believers. If ever science and the scritures seem to conflict, then I believe that the science is faulty somehow. Call me naive, but no matter.

Possibly there's no geographical evidence because they are looking for it in the wrong point in history. Things didn't always progress as slowly as they do now. The scriptures mention whole continents moving in one man's lifetime. So at times, geographical changes happened more rapidly than at other times.

Since the flood was a physical baptism of the earth, everything--with the exception of the ark--was washed away. Everything we have now, meaning all fossils, are post-flood. This includes dinosaurs. So if the scientists looked for the flood at the beginning of the fossil record, they might find it.

Anyway, the scriptures are true. They always have been.

[Vanhin]

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

Remember, the term Earth may mean the area in which Noah was living. The biggest offense to GOD, as it was with Nimrod, the people collectivily lived in the same area and did not go forth and filled the Earth as commanded to Adam and Eve.

Well sure. Just like the term heavens does not always mean spiritual abode of God or spirits. Sometimes it means the skies, or everything outside our local earth. That's why I prefer this passage (and the surrounding passages):

And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. (Genesis 7)

This makes it clear that "all the high hills...under the whole heaven, were covered". I guess the only other interpretation would be that all the high hills in all the universe were covered, but that would be rediculous. So, it must mean that our local earth was completely covered.

Regards,
Vanhin

[bytor2112]

It doesn't really matter to me either way. Global flood or localized, do we even know how many people existed during this time or where they existed at? The program made some pretty strong statements regarding the impossibility of building the ark as well. They claimed it could not have stayed a float without a metal skeletel structure....and that Noah couldn't possibly have loaded all creatures on the Ark. They read some scriptures from Leviticus regarding the probable types of animals that Noah loaded on to the ARk.

[richlittell]

I would tend to go with global, as a baptism of the earth, but it's truly not relevant to our salvation.
What is relevant to our salvation is how much we decide to "pick and choose" which part of the scripture we choose to interpret as literal and figurative.
When we start picking apart the scriptures, we may very well choose to discard something that was truly literal, and we may unwittingly get caught in that little thread of web that the adversary so silently weaves.

Is the Adam and Eve story true? Did Jonah really get swallowed by a whale? Did Daniel really survive the lion's den?. Is the earth really only 6000 years old? What about evolution, and dinosaur bones?

Here's my take, I'll stand before the Lord taking everything literal until we have direct revelation otherwise.

I don't discard scientific evidence such as that of dinosaur bones, but I believe in the creation as literal and know that in the millennium or one of the eternal kingdoms I can figure out how science and scripture all come together as a whole. Inactivity or even apostasy is never an overnight thing and the more doubts we place on the scriptures the more dangerous things become.

Nevertheless, I have an inquisitive mind and search out many non-spiritual things and think they are exciting to learn, but please, my fellow saints, don't go wresting the scriptures needlessly.

And besides, when we start saying one miracle sounds plausible while others are probably impossible, do we not undermine the capability of our Creator? I wouldn't want to stand before him in that last day and say, "You know, there are just some things you could not possibly have done."

[changed]

I am a believer – some arguments I have heard - 80-90% of the Earth’s crust is composed of sedimentary rocks – rocks created from being crushed under a large weight… We also have clear evidence of mass extinctions of animals, scientists are still debating the cause of the extinctions… There are lots of fossils – recall that the best way to make a fossil is to rapidly bury a creature….

In any event,
We believe in baptism by immersion, not by sprinkling. It seems to me that the same thing would apply to the Earth. I think it is fascinating that the Earth has a spirit of it’s own – a living entity that will undergo the same ordinances that we do.

There are more intense things that happened than the flood.
Josh 20: 13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

The book of Jasher is online. Link

People can try and scientifically explain away everything – how there is a wind that dries part of the Red Sea occasionally for people to pass along, or how there is a type of red algae that can make the Nile look like blood, or how it is possible for a virgin to give birth, or how a coma can sometimes make a person look like they were dead – you can go scientifically explaining away all miracles until they are no longer miracles at all, but just naturally occurring phenomenon with ideal timing.

I don’t think God only works through “natural” means… or at least what we consider to be “natural”. Not that He is a “God of the gaps” but there is no need to try and explain everything away to verify it…

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by Vanhin

Well sure. Just like the term heavens does not always mean spiritual abode of God or spirits. Sometimes it means the skies, or everything outside our local earth. That's why I prefer this passage (and the surrounding passages):

And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. (Genesis 7)

This makes it clear that "all the high hills...under the whole heaven, were covered". I guess the only other interpretation would be that all the high hills in all the universe were covered, but that would be rediculous. So, it must mean that our local earth was completely covered.

Regards,
Vanhin

It depends on the author and who is speaking. We need to ensure that we place ourselves in their shoes to complete our understanding on what is being painted by words of the recorder. Even if we compared the writings at the time of the Savior death, the Nephites used the same expression on what transpired to the the earth. What happened n the Americas did not happen in the land of Israel or Rome; noting past historical records.

Vanhin, I am in agreement that the Earth was covered over and through gelogical events, the earth was again transformed during and after the great deluge.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by richlittell

I would tend to go with global, as a baptism of the earth, but it's truly not relevant to our salvation.
What is relevant to our salvation is how much we decide to "pick and choose" which part of the scripture we choose to interpret as literal and figurative.
When we start picking apart the scriptures, we may very well choose to discard something that was truly literal, and we may unwittingly get caught in that little thread of web that the adversary so silently weaves.

Is the Adam and Eve story true? Did Jonah really get swallowed by a whale? Did Daniel really survive the lion's den?. Is the earth really only 6000 years old? What about evolution, and dinosaur bones?

Here's my take, I'll stand before the Lord taking everything literal until we have direct revelation otherwise.

I don't discard scientific evidence such as that of dinosaur bones, but I believe in the creation as literal and know that in the millennium or one of the eternal kingdoms I can figure out how science and scripture all come together as a whole. Inactivity or even apostasy is never an overnight thing and the more doubts we place on the scriptures the more dangerous things become.

Nevertheless, I have an inquisitive mind and search out many non-spiritual things and think they are exciting to learn, but please, my fellow saints, don't go wresting the scriptures needlessly.

And besides, when we start saying one miracle sounds plausible while others are probably impossible, do we not undermine the capability of our Creator? I wouldn't want to stand before him in that last day and say, "You know, there are just some things you could not possibly have done."

Would all the earths require the same baptismal act? Do those of the lesser glory - namely the Telestial and Terrestial require to be baptized in order to receive that state of glory?