Uncomfortable Doctrine

[bytor2112]

Hello again Ceeboo,

2 Thessolonians Ch. 2 verses 1-12

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, aby the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know awhat withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all apower and bsigns and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong elusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2 Timothy Ch.4 verses1-4

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


Ephesians Ch 1 verse 10

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians Ch. 4 verses 11-14

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

[bmy-]

Originally Posted by fiona84

Thanks everyone.

I feel a lot better about it this evening. Believe it or not, it was my non-member husband (whom I was so worried about after that darn speaker on Sunday) that actually made me feel better.
I did not discuss this 'issue' with him really, but today he said some really nice things about the church and it reminded me why I was upset in the first place....because he was there, and its HIM I really want to join the church. And why do I want him to join the church so badly? Because I believe in it!

I just don't feel its a very endearing concept to investigators or even converts like myself. Maybe it will take time...and while I'm not going to jump on the godhood bandwagon any time soon, and I do not have a testimony of it despite the great responses on here,I feel assured that my over all testimony isn't going to be hindered like i worried it would be yesterday.

Good to hear!

[pam]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Hi Pam

Too kind ( thank you )

I think this forum is filled ( you certainly included ) with several awesome people who respect and do there very best to contribute under the umbrella of love and Christianity.

This is the main reason I have stayed and am now " senior member " ceeboo

God bless,
Carl

Hey keep it up and pretty soon you'll be moderating this place.

Originally Posted by pam

Hey keep it up and pretty soon you'll be moderating this place.

LOL

I think I might need a letter of permission from the Vatican but if you are serious I can make a few calls in the morning.

[pam]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

LOL

I think I might need a letter of permission from the Vatican but if you are serious I can make a few calls in the morning.

hahahahahaha Just have YOUR people call MY people.

[Vanhin]

Ceeboo,

We believe in Jesus of Nazareth, same as Catholics and Protestants. We try to follow his teachings, and model our lives after his perfect example. We worship him as the Son of God.

Our claim is that God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to the prophet Joseph Smith and called him as a prophet. After this experience the Lord brought forth the Book of Mormon, which is a record of civilizations who inhabited the Americas anciently. They also knew about Jesus Christ, and God had called prophets among them as well. Joseph Smith translated this record by the gift and power of God into English.

We learn from the Book of Mormon that the same Jesus of Nazareth, appeared to the people of ancient America after his resurrection and taught them what he had taught his disciples in Palestine. He also taught them that they were the "other sheep" that he had talked to his disciples about, and that there were yet others that he must visit and teach.

Our message to the world is that the Church and gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored, and that God has once again called a prophet in preparation for the second coming of Christ. We declare that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and that only through faith in him and in his atonement, and through obedience to his teachings can mankind be saved.

Sincerely,
Vanhin

Originally Posted by bytor2112

Hello again Ceeboo,

2 Thessolonians Ch. 2 verses 1-12

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, aby the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know awhat withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all apower and bsigns and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong elusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2 Timothy Ch.4 verses1-4

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


Ephesians Ch 1 verse 10

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians Ch. 4 verses 11-14

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

bytor,

NOW THAT was a post ( elphaba like )

Very bias Interpretation would be my short reply.

I would readily agree that there are many warnings in the NT that caution us of a variety of things including your offerings. What I do not agree with is that those cautions had to do with the " Church " that Jesus built on the " rock of Peter " in which Jesus himself said would prevail over ALL.

If you believe it has not prevailed ( went into Great Apostasy ), you would have to say Jesus was wrong or was not telling the truth. Furthermore, if this apostasy took place, where is there historical support for such an enormous claim. Certainly you would be able to point to a year or atleast a decade or century for such a monumental event.

The warnings in scripture you suggest are IMHO no " Great Apostasy " at all, rather they are warnings of humans ( you and I ) who will and did stray from the original authentic teachings of Jesus himself because of mere man. They strayed in multiple ways not the least of which are greed, power, and corruption. These human ways ( sins and disobediences ) have nothing and still have nothing to do with the Church Jesus built .

Additionally, If your claim of the " Great apostasy " happened in the " early Church " and was not restored until 1800 or so, was happening during the 1500 years ( give or take a couple hundred) that the children of God lived and were proposed to be stranded by the very one who loves us beyond comprehension??

I would add ( for what it's worth ) that without including the events of the 1820's, JS, and BofM and ONLY CONSIDERING YOUR NT SCRIPTURE OFFERINGS, the suggestion of a prophesied " great apostasy " would be completly rejected by all Christians as well as Christian scholars.

God bless,
Carl

Originally Posted by pam

hahahahahaha Just have YOUR people call MY people.

That would be a VERY interesting call would it not.

Ohhh my it's 215 am here in Michigan, gotta go snuggle the gorgious bride, Nite Nite to all

God bless,
Carl

[Justice]

I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but I've read many of them.

If the OPer is still following this thread, perhaps we can help better if we understand what you view the Celestial Kingdom to be like? With all your studies and what you've read in scripture and by General Authorities, what do you think exaltation is?

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Hemi, Vahn, Bytor, and others

Thank you all very sincerly for taking the time and trying to explain this to me
I really appreciate it

Although it still is very confusing and honestly seems that there is contradicting beliefs from members on this thread, It is indeed very interesting.

To be fair ( shed an even light ) I will be the first to tell you that there is some contradiction in my Catholic faith regarding some doctrine as well ( although it seems that it is not over such huge claims, that could possibly be my bias chiming in )

Thanks again for ALL the generous efforts.

God bless,
Carl

If you cannot understand now, then we do what Mary did throughout her life, pondered on what is given until that day, when the HG enlightens our soul with truths.