Uncomfortable Doctrine

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by fiona84

Line that super concerns me in red...that implies we will be worshipped.

Either way, I guarantee you won't have to worry about it in practical terms for a VERY long time - way beyond this lifetime.


HiJolly

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by HiJolly

Either way, I guarantee you won't have to worry about it in practical terms for a VERY long time - way beyond this lifetime.

HiJolly

And because you will at that time have reached perfection, what mortals call "worship" may be understood as love, your own children calling home.

[bmy-]

Originally Posted by justamere10

And because you will at that time have reached perfection, what mortals call "worship" may be understood as love, your own children calling home.

Excellent.

Originally Posted by richlittell

HI ceeboo,
You are so good at responding to people's posts. Thanks.

I personally do not see a contradiction in believing that Peter was the rock upon which the church was built in times past, no more than us believing that Joseph Smith could be considered the rock upon which the Lord has restored his church in these latter-days (from our perspective, of course). The question would be that even if Peter was the initial rock upon which the church was founded, has that authority truly passed down through the ages to the current Pope or was there an apostasy somewhere in these two thousand years since the time of Christ. I would say that no one can really prove this philosophically, scripturally or historically -- I mean neither the LDS position nor the Catholic church's position, although both sides, of course, would say their is scriptural and historical evidence to strengthen their conclusion.


In response to your comment on my other post: Besides being a member of three major Christian sects (my parents changed over once, and I made a change once), I had studied all the major world religions and philosophies before converting to our church, that would include Catholicism, Taoism, Confucianism, Nihilism, etc...--most everything except Islam. The LDS doctrine answered all my questions, but I found many good things in all my studies.

cheers.

Hello richlittell,

I do appreciate your efforts in explaining that you do not see a contradiction in regards to Peter being the " rock " and suggesting that JS is the " rock " in which the Lord has restored the Church. In an effort to be transparent with you, I simply can not connect those two very distant dots. I would stand by my original contribution in this matter, If there was a need to restore ( 1600 years or so down the road ) then it seems rather obvious IMHO that Jesus' words that HIS CHURCH would never fall would lead me to the only conclusion there is, his ( THE LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST ) promise has indeed not happened as well as implying that his Church needed to be fixed.

Concerning the later part of your comments to me:
" even if Peter was the initial rock " My offering would be there was and is only one "rock" as Jesus boldly stated so.

" Has that authority truly passed down through the ages or has there been an apostasy during these two thousand years " IMHO, It has absolutly passed down, not because of human perfection ( obviously far from it ) nor because of a " Catholic superiority complex " but completly because the very creator of HIS CHURCH, JESUS, BUILT IT, GAVE THE AUTHORITY AND GRACE TO SUSTAIN IT AND PROMISED US ALL IT WOULD NEVER FALL AND WOULD STAND UNTIL THE VERY END. I would also add that there has indeed been apostasy ( we are all warned of this as supported by Scripture) and IMHO there continues to be apostasy, a vastly different thing than complete or great apostasy that is required for " restoration ".

Due to your experience in several " flavors " of religions, I do respect and appreciate your pespective that you have shared with me, thanks . Similarly to you, I have also found many good things about the LDS Church. Again, in an effort To be transparent with you, what does any or all of that really mean, by what measuring stick should we ALL be using to determine the place we worship as well as call our " home" ???? A monumetal question IMHO

Thanks for the back and forth,

God bless,
Carl

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Hello richlittell,

I do appreciate your efforts in explaining that you do not see a contradiction in regards to Peter being the " rock " and suggesting that JS is the " rock " in which the Lord has restored the Church.

Um... The "rock" is not and never was Joseph Smith. Never.

HiJolly

Originally Posted by HiJolly

Um... The "rock" is not and never was Joseph Smith. Never.

HiJolly

Hello HiJolly,

To be clear ( obviously ) you don't think that I suggested that JS was the " rock " ??
Sorry, I am a little confused because you posted my quote ?

At any rate, I was answering richlittell suggestion to me.

God bless,
Carl ( one of your best spelling friends )

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

I do appreciate your efforts in explaining that you do not see a contradiction in regards to Peter being the " rock " and suggesting that JS is the " rock " in which the Lord has restored the Church.

Sorry for the confusion. This is what I was responding to. No one here should suggest that JS is the "rock". So I guess I should have responded to richlittell. Oops.

LDS teaches that the "rock" is revelation -- no matter who it is receiving it. Of course in context of the scripture, it is speaking of the leaders of the Church. And we feel a leader cannot lead the Church if they don't have that 'rock'.


HiJolly

Originally Posted by HiJolly

Sorry for the confusion. This is what I was responding to. No one here should suggest that JS is the "rock". So I guess I should have responded to richlittell. Oops.

LDS teaches that the "rock" is revelation -- no matter who it is receiving it. Of course in context of the scripture, it is speaking of the leaders of the Church. And we feel a leader cannot lead the Church if they don't have that 'rock'.


HiJolly

More confused now!!! now you have quoted my post AGAIN USING BOLD LETTERS.

To try and be very clear ( due to your posting my qoutes twice completly out of context and which possibly implies that JS being considered the rock is my offering ), I OBVIOUSLY DO NOT BELIEVE JS IS OR WAS CONSIDERED THE ROCK IN WHICH THE LORD RESTORED THE CHURCH, AN OFFERING GIVEN BY ME TO ANOTHER POSTER.

God bless,
Carl

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

More confused now!!! now you have quoted my post AGAIN USING BOLD LETTERS.

To try and be very clear ( due to your posting my qoutes twice completly out of context and which possibly implies that JS being considered the rock is my offering ), I OBVIOUSLY DO NOT BELIEVE JS IS OR WAS CONSIDERED THE ROCK IN WHICH THE LORD RESTORED THE CHURCH, AN OFFERING GIVEN BY ME TO ANOTHER POSTER.

God bless,
Carl

Right -- my bad twice over, and even though I named rich in my post, I didn't quote his comment. I think I'd better go to bed.


HiJolly

Originally Posted by HiJolly

Right -- my bad twice over, and even though I named rich in my post, I didn't quote his comment. I think I'd better go to bed.


HiJolly

HiJolly,

NOOOOOO PROBLEM at all my friend, I was just confused a little also

I would add ( to be fair ) your posts ( although a little confusing ) certainly did not come anywhere near the top 10 " all time worst " ( Polycarp )

God bless,
Carl